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Post by Brett H. on Feb 9, 2009 20:49:01 GMT -6
Understand guys I am talking prestaked kill poles, not actual sets. Just because I have a spot prestaked, if I am not there first I fully understand if someone else sets my spot. He was there first after 8am so it is his. If you have a guy who is prestaking a trail leaving no room for anyone else, that is disrespectful as it gets. If I am there first, I am not going to accomodate him, I am going to show him the same respect he showed the rest of us. There is NO reason to load up a trail like that, other than trying to OWN the trail. Agree 100%!!
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Post by k9 on Feb 9, 2009 20:51:49 GMT -6
Another example would be a guy who is prestaked as close to the fence as he legally can. If I am there first and I want that spot, it's mine. Thats the set that gets first shot at the coons (and possums)
No one can claim anything with a prestaked piece of equipment. To pre load a trail with stakes every so many feet, and expect other trappers to honor that is not gonna fly.
Not only would I not honor it, I would go out of my way to come to an understanding with that fella.
We have our little pissin matches around here but nothing like I have had described to me by people I am talking to about this issue.
I got a call tonight from a fella who was describing hundreds of kill poles being left in the ditches, set up multiple poles per trail. THAT is ridiculous. Makes me want to go down there and pull them myself.
If we don't deal with this in house, DNR will deal with it for us. None of us will like the outcome of that.
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 9, 2009 20:52:43 GMT -6
I dont know, this becomes a very delicate situation. the guy that loads up a trail is just a very hard working SOB if you ask me but than again if its just a stake, nothing else, and its before season its just trash and open game for all. IMO
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 9, 2009 20:55:28 GMT -6
As a wise gentleman told me on the phone earlier, if we cant get along on this issue the DNR will most certainly take the easy route and end ALL ROW trapping. End of problem from their perspective.
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Post by k9 on Feb 9, 2009 21:10:38 GMT -6
I have a few creeks that I trap the ROW and a friend of mine traps too.
I prestake it every year one set on each side of the road, two sets per creek.
This is wide on both sides, I don't even crowd up close to the fenceline. First year I set in there he was a little offended, until I pointed out to him that I left him plenty of room.
He proceeded to load up both sides with several sets trying to shut the coon out, and actually did a good job of it. I still set that every year because I drive by there every day, and every year I leave him plenty of room.
It is to his advantage that I prestake because he can see what I am doing, and get ahead of me on the coon if he wants to.
Do I want all the coon? Sure. But I am willing to settle for some of them as I am driving by there anyway.
Will I fight him over a coon? No its not worth it and demeans our sport.
Will I fight someone over thier ignorant claim to "ownership" over a road ditch coon trail? Yep I sure will. Better me stand up to him than the 14 year old kid down the road get bullied by him.
I have had a few times when kids have told me that so and so ran them out of an area, and they can't trap that area because it belongs to so and so. That really PISSES me off and makes me want to go set right on top of the jerk. Sometimes jerks need to be stood up to, and people who overload a stupid coon trail like I have had described to me are taking "competitiveness" too dam far.
How many kids see a prestaked trail like that and move on because they think someone "owns" it?
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Post by Eric Rector on Feb 9, 2009 21:15:48 GMT -6
Alot, do
I was prestaked heavy on in an area this year and I didn't set because of it but that's just me, I could have.
Here is what I intend to do with the four counties that I serve. I have asked for the mailing list of all members within my counties and I am going to draft a letter stating what the issue is and has been and am going to ask for responses from them so I can at least be informed as to what's going on in my area of the state. Hopefully, they take the time to respond to this, we'll see.
Eric Rector Dist 16
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 9, 2009 21:18:23 GMT -6
Yes but Bruce, Your probably about my age. remember the 70s? High dollar coon and trappers EVERYWHERE. Did we give up because the old timers told us to go home. Heck no. Just made me that much more determined to out do them. Your good to your competiton because you want to be, but no one has to be. This is a dog eat dog world my friend. Sad but true.
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Post by k9 on Feb 9, 2009 21:25:58 GMT -6
Yep I started trapping right before the boom, and cut my teeth during the hieght of the boom. I remember how bad it can get. I also remember how it felt as a kid to have some adult be unfair with me and not know for sure what to do.
I don't get pissy about ROW trapping until someone starts thinking they "own" the coon there. I treat my competition well because we are all in the same sport, and in the bigger picture represent our sport. But if someone will treat me crappy, then I figure they will be twice as crappy with a little kid who is just getting started. Those kind of people are not my friends, and do not care about our sport.
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 9, 2009 21:40:27 GMT -6
Can't argue with you there. I've always been respectful to my competiton as well until they wrong me. Than they WILL here about it! ....As you have stated, we handle things ourselves without getting the DNR involved if we dont have to. Something we all need to abide by in this new developement if we want to keep what we have.
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Post by skunked on Feb 9, 2009 22:29:41 GMT -6
If there is bullying involved Jerry Lee (DAD) said there is only one way to handle a bully and it was not telling on them. First time I got bullied was in first grade because I was the first kid to get glasses. I told dad and he said there wasn't much he could do not being there so I handled it myself the next day and punched the bully right in the nose. That night Jerry Lee got a call from the principal about it and dad said he deserved it. The principal said yeah but it was a she!!! Needless to say dad had a little talk with me after that. Nonetheless the bullying stopped.
Moral of the story. Bullies need to know what they are doing is not going to be allowed (maybe not punched), and they will stop, unless you are getting bullied by a trapper girl. Then just go to the next bridge or your dad is going to give you an awkward talking to.
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Post by bearcreektaxi on Feb 9, 2009 23:43:33 GMT -6
If you are prestaking and leaving the other guy room, you are just doing an honest days work. If you are overwhelming a trail with multiple prestaked snares you are claiming the trail for yourself, and thats not right. I think I have agreed with every thread of yours I have read, but this is where I have to part ways. I almost always stake at least 2 stakes in a trail, and sometimes more. I have no intention of claiming the trail but I have every intention of setting 2 or more snares in that trail opening day, given that somebody hasn't already set it. I find gang setting to be vital to maximizing my catch. I've said it 1000 times, if a stake is in your way opening day, and nothing is set, set the trail wherever you see fit, even if it involves moving the stake, it doesn't bother me at all and it shouldn't bother anybody else. While I didn't prestake much at all last year (less than 100 stakes, I believe) at one time I was probably one of the most prevelant pre-stakers in the state (over 1000 for a several years), usually started 3 or 4 weeks out. I've been called every name in the book for doing so but I couldn't care less. I've had guys cut snares, steal snares, steal coons, steal coons and throw the carcass back in the trail, and pretty much every other thing possible. What I've come to realize is that some people seem to enjoy living in a crisis mode, they have to have disaster or a beef otherwise they don't have reason to wake up. They would prefer to bitch about somebody else then going out and work their ass off to catch as many as possible. It always somebody elses fault that they came up short, hmmm. sounds kind of like a lot of things in this country. So give away prestaking, I don't care, I'll get my sets in, I'll work harder, but don't expect the whining to stop.
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Post by k9 on Feb 10, 2009 7:51:42 GMT -6
I should give more info in most posts.
Please understand, that I get the guy who sets multiples on trails. He is after as many coon in as short a time as possible. I get that and understand.
The examples that people have called me on, are as follows.
People setting up as many kill poles as possible on the trail, opening two (one on each side of the road) and only opening the another two after catches are made. Rather than moving thier two kill poles after a catch, they are just dominating the whole road ditcj for two active snares at a time. This example came from northwestern Iowa. They leave no room between thier rigs for anyone else to get it in.
Another example is in southwestern Iowa, same deal, so many kill poles there is no room for anyone else, and they guy leave them there year round with no snares on them.
Both examples are ridiculous, and both trappers need someone to stand up to them. Both trappers think they OWN that ditch, and they will think so as long as we let them.
Folks we are dealing with a small number of trappers here. They are probably hard workers, but they will bring the end to your pre staking.
Some of you want to blame or hold ITA directors accountable for this current situation.
Why won't you hold those trappers accountable for it too?
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Post by k9 on Feb 10, 2009 8:00:46 GMT -6
Sooooo......... still waiting to hear about complaints on water traps prestaked Have not heard any yet......water traps?....prestaked?....any complaints?......any reason why they are being lumped in? Just askin
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Post by 4fur on Feb 10, 2009 8:49:35 GMT -6
Basically it's going to be similar to the arguments on dry land ROW trapping, it starts with jealousy and ends with jealousy. The best numbers trapper in Iowa gets out 1000-1200 1.5 CS dukes on drowning cables with pre-dug pockets before season begins. He runs these on a 3 day check, not necessarily opening all sets the first week. This year he waited until Wednesday to start due to fur primeness and the near record warm weather we were experiencing. Over 200 coon first check. He stayed off mink this year but still had 300 the last I heard. Normally takes 3500 coon and 700 mink each year. Or more. Love to see the Whine-O-Meters peg out if some of these guys saw this guy roll into THEIR area and trapped THEIR fur!
BTW, he only makes two sets per bridge less than 10' from each other so there is plenty of room for the competition to set. He probably gets more fur and traps stolen annually than most of do in a career. He doesn't even read the competition's tags because he is too busy doing his own thing. Might stretch the ROW by a few feet where there are no fences to clearly define the ROW but otherwise plays fair and by the rules 100%.
Most know who I'm talking about. Lets stay focused on the issue of prestaking and not talk about this individual. Just using him as an example that good competition is everywhere in Iowa, but so is fur.
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cooner
Active Trap Talker
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Post by cooner on Feb 10, 2009 9:15:30 GMT -6
what is the exact reason for banning prestaking? what area of the state are the complaints from? i have never prestaked before,there is some around where i trap ,not alot, lots of competiors and theft,probly just like anywhere else,some competiors well not let you trap around them by harrasing or stealing if you do,and taking up just about every run around there trapping area,and well tell you that they are trapping this area,is that the only proposed law change? no staking ahead of season? always thought most places the fiberoptic cables and lines where deeper than 18 inches, i oftentimes get the stake in an average of 2 ft. and have some sticking up out of ground,less than a foot,when i am done,they get pulled,have found traps,stakes,connibears,,footholds,snares in different areas, mainly certain areas that were left set and abandoned,forgotten,some for years,had tags on them,the few i bothered to look more closely at,some of connibears and snares had last years rotten coon,or what little rotted down peice of fur that was left of it,not sure if forgot trap,or just did not care and left lay
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Post by ~ADC~ on Feb 10, 2009 11:19:07 GMT -6
Sooooo......... still waiting to hear about complaints on water traps prestaked Have not heard any yet......water traps?....prestaked?....any complaints?......any reason why they are being lumped in? Just askin I agree with 4fur. The only thing wrong with pre-staking ROW's water or land is the same. People thinking they own the location and the animals that frequent it. Whether its the pre-stakers thinking that way or the other trappers thinking that way. Eliminating pre-staking WILL NOT put an end to this. The only way to put a stop to it is to stop allowing trapping in public areas and NO ONE wants that. So the only real solution is to just "STOP THE WHINING!", move on and get over it. It works for me and it can work for you too. ~ADC~
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 10, 2009 12:38:06 GMT -6
k9, One would litterally have to place 100s of snares on one trail to actually leave no room for anyone else. If the complainers dont like certain trails being pre-staked ahead of them, get there first and pre-stake before them. I hope some of the complainers you talked to dont want to impose regs on the number of sets one can place on a trail next.
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 10, 2009 13:08:03 GMT -6
Was out feeding lambs and thinking about this issue and theres one thing I havent seen mentioned. I know of several out of state trappers that pre-stake in IA. and harvest some large numbers of coon. I am sure some resident trappers have been more upset when they get to a trail and find its an out of stater that had it pre-staked. If I cant pre-stake in MO,ILL,WI,NE, than by golly they shouldnt be allowed to pre-stake here! reciperacal all the way.
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Post by dfox on Feb 10, 2009 13:15:56 GMT -6
Good point Dave!
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Post by k9 on Feb 10, 2009 19:53:58 GMT -6
Dave
How its being described to me is a lot like the Lucero "overlap method".
The snares are spaced just far enough apart that the caught animal makes no contact with the next kill pole. One snare on each side of the road is open, the rest pulled closed. When one catch is made, the next snare is opened, and so on and so on.
I see your point, but actually when you leave space for catch circles there is not that many snares needed, depending on the ditch.
Opinions would vary but I feel so many snares are un needed, as I reset the same spot over and over, just piling the catch circle duff on both sides of the snares. However I am sure some trappers would disagree.
There is room for another trapper, but many will not set in such a location. If the guy has his snare open after 8am, before I get there then I may honor his sets. But if I am there first his gear means nothing to me.
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 10, 2009 20:11:16 GMT -6
When I used to run an extensive road line I pre-staked all my equiptment. Snares, body grips, foot traps, all of it. There were times that I would have a trail farely well covered and guys would slap 220s RIGHT between my snares. Sometimes I'd have a coon in a snare that had been dispatched by a guys 220. No big deal, was in my snare first so it was my coon. There were also times that others had coon in bodygrips and I also had coon in my snares. I guess my point is there is always room for more no matter how heavily the trail is set. If I came upon snares or body grips pre-staked but unset I slapped in my sets right next to them. Its a "My land is your land, your land is my land" kind of deal and I never really had any problems with anyone and to the best of my knowledge no one ever complained to me or the DNR. There is a huge advantage to having multiple snares on one trail. It takes WAY too long during the regular season to pound in stakes and place snares if your going to attempt a really long line. With multiple snares I can quickly pull the rig with the coon and still have other snares waiting and ready. No trapper should be chastised for using his head. Instead out work the guy and there will be no problems.
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Post by minnow on Feb 11, 2009 17:09:11 GMT -6
To be a effecient trapper you need things going your way including codes & laws. Prestaking option gives the edge to be a better trapper. The guys who prestake there iron do have a edge on a trapper who has choosen not to do so. Really it was fair to begin with, we all have that choice to do so.
Just one off the wall questions Are there pheasent in the counties where guys prestake heavy, if so they must be doing a effecient job in cathching the four legged animals preying on the pheasent & eating thier eggs?
I would say with certianty that there is always room for one more trapper in the row, always.
Minnow
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cooner
Active Trap Talker
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Post by cooner on Feb 11, 2009 19:30:59 GMT -6
so the dnr may try making new law to end prestaking or are they going to end row trapping this year possibly?
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Post by dfox on Feb 12, 2009 7:04:54 GMT -6
End pre-staking................for now.
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Post by justwannano on Feb 12, 2009 13:35:22 GMT -6
End pre-staking................for now. Do you really think that "...for now" is a realistic possibility? just
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 12, 2009 13:57:23 GMT -6
I think he meant thats all there gonna take for now......Give them time and it will be more.
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Post by dfox on Feb 12, 2009 13:57:47 GMT -6
End pre-staking................for now. Do you really think that "...for now" is a realistic possibility? just I meant they were trying to end pre-staking at this time and the ROW would follow at some point. I hope that's not the case.
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cooner
Active Trap Talker
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Post by cooner on Feb 12, 2009 17:11:17 GMT -6
i would not be suprised to see row trapping banned in less then 5 yrs. would not be suprised to see big changes in all trapping laws in way less then 10 yrs. many states do not allow row trapping,or is restricted to getting permission,illinois,none,even with permission,wisconsin,some roads you may be able to legally row trap, missori or nebraska and mn,not sure
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Post by Kelly on Feb 12, 2009 17:21:54 GMT -6
There are far more States where the ROW is legal for trapping than those that do not allow it. For example, of the States bordering Iowa, all but 2 allow it(and one of those is about to get it back so that leaves one).
Of the States that border Illinois all of them allow ROW trapping.
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Post by bluedot64 on Feb 12, 2009 18:17:14 GMT -6
Very good Kelly, do you know about pre-staking in these same areas?
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