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Post by daveplueger on Feb 2, 2009 20:25:25 GMT -6
Thankyou Code for the clarification. Since the DNR was in the works of making a change regarding pre-staking and the possibility of losing road right of way trapping altogether was a concern than I would be in favor of the least of two evils. Did Ron say why the 2 week proposal was not option? If it was because of an enforcement issue there are many things the DNR is unable to enforce.
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Post by Scott W. on Feb 2, 2009 20:27:14 GMT -6
Did Ron give a reason why the 2 week window was not even an option? Who is doing the complaining, the public, or a bunch of trappers who are jealous of another's resourcefulness and drive? Gee, I'm jealous of the guy who has all day to trap, and can spend the whole season in the field. Just because I don't have that kind of time doesn't mean I want to limit somebody else's activities to "level the playing field". With less and less people out there harvesting the fur, we need every advantage we can get to keep the populations healthy. I guess I'm a bit old school 'cause I'd never given much thought to putting out a bunch of equipment ahead of the season(too much theft in my younger days), but I like the idea from a pure efficiency stand point. I do think preplacement of equipment should be stated as legal in the regulation book and that would clear up a lot of questions that people have had.(myself included) Scott
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Post by iayogi17 on Feb 2, 2009 21:01:53 GMT -6
so if we give up prestaking to keep row what is going to change? the crier are still going to cry about something like he traps to close we need to set a distance rule... bs. What ever happend to America land of the free! Every year minority push for rules that hurt the majority just because of some bad experience. suck it up and learn to be better
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Post by trappinia on Feb 2, 2009 21:11:05 GMT -6
Ron said the DNR was concerned about how they would enforce it.
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code
Hyper-Active Trap Talker
Posts: 175
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Post by code on Feb 2, 2009 21:18:44 GMT -6
I wasn't sure if it was the enforcement or the regulators not wanting something "extra" to write up. Either way yes I agree there will still be cry babys. It does only take a few gripers with too much time on their hands to ruin it for all of us, be it this or their cat in a trap 3 miles from home, b-tch enough and someone will end it, one way or another.
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Post by x-demoman on Feb 2, 2009 21:48:00 GMT -6
Looks like the discussion continues. I brought this to the attention of this site over a year ago. This subject has been cussed and discussed for at least the last 3 years. The 2 week option was not acceptable to the DNR because of enforcement. Like Eric has stated "Ron will take this to the DNR office in Des Moines". What will happen from there is anyones guess but I would speculated that with the closeness of the vote it will not more foreward.
If you have not been involved recieving complaints I can see where you are only looking out for your little corner of the world. This is not just a problem in Fontanelle it is state wide. Those of you that honor the prestakers are in a minority. Those that would moslest the prestaked sets (kill poles, stake and trap or snare) are in violation of the Iowa Trapper Harrasement law.
I understand the arguments from both sides and do not see this as giving up anything. Can the states to our east and west prestake in the right of way? No they can not even trap in the right of way. Did they loose that because the majority abused it? No Nebraska had 1 (ONE) incident that cost them the right of way.
I voted to disallow prestakeing in the road right of way. Now if I am the bad guy so be it. My interests are how are our interests best served not only today but in the future. Guess I am one of the guys who "only catch 100 coon in cages and DPs" and have no respect for my fellow trappers.
No where in all the complaint have I seen where a single person contacted their ITA Director to express an opinion yet you were aware this was come over a year ago. Is this the right decision, will it stand, can it be overturned, will it even be implemented by the DNR?? Only time will tell.
Gene ITA Director Dist 2 Adair Cass Union Adams Ringold Taylor
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cinch1
Shy Talker
Trapper second DAD FIRST
Posts: 48
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Post by cinch1 on Feb 2, 2009 22:18:29 GMT -6
I am absoulty for the the resoulution of the ITA to stop prestaking. To many times I have seen prestaked traps set by someone else other than the trapper. I did prestake alot years ago and had snares opened up on me. Lucky no catches made as I found the opened snares the within a short period of time. For the last couple of years we start prestaking the day before season I really question if that is really a advantage or not. I am one of those guys that only trap for a week maybe two now.
There was a time that I trapped every day of the season but work has changed my ability to trap for a entire season. The really good trappers know where they are going, where the fur is, and the effcient way of catching them. So it takes a day or two longer to put out a huge line. The big catches are not made the in the first 2 or 3 days of a season. Big catches are made by hard working trappers that have a tremedous amount of drive and skill.
Public Road Rightaways are a privelage to trap and about 15 years ago some counties tried to stop us from trapping the rightaways. I was involved with the ITA in making sure it was a state regulation that provided the protection for the trapper to trap in the Public Road Rightaways. When the DNR is talking about problems occuring from pre-staking we need to be proactive to stop the problems from becoming a huge issue that we can not overcome. Also do not forget the ITA was the lead on conlony muskrat traps, otter restocking, and helping purchase many state lands. I will rejoin the ITA and be a proud member of a organization that looks ahead and has our best interest at heart.
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Post by justwannano on Feb 3, 2009 0:30:41 GMT -6
How could the DNR take away the right to trap right of ways without also taking away the right to hunt right of ways?
Quote cinch1 ... Public Road Rightaways are a privelage to trap .../quote
If that is so then it is also a privelage for everyone else. Hunters, walkers, bird watchers, bike riders, fishermen etc. So I'm thinking that those folks aren't thinking it is a priviledge. So why should we? Just try telling 1 of them it isn't their right.
Have a good one just
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Post by furman on Feb 3, 2009 0:55:55 GMT -6
Why is the two week thing an enforcement issue? If a guy out setting early and gets turned in he’ll get fined it’s not like the DNR officers have to go out and look for some setting early.
How wide spreads are the complaints? With fur prices dropping this should subside
There will always be complaints about this or that and if we put regs on everything that comes down the pipe it won’t be long before our hands will be tied
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cinch1
Shy Talker
Trapper second DAD FIRST
Posts: 48
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Post by cinch1 on Feb 3, 2009 9:12:00 GMT -6
Everyone remember that the state does control the Public Road Right Away Look at the following
Shotgun deer hunting - is not allowed is a large portion of the state from the road right away. Goose hunting is not permitted along many roads Rifles are not permitted to be shot across a Road Where trap placements (220 and snares) occur within a road right away No hunting or snares and conibears 200 yards from a inhabited building site
Privilege or right I do not care what you call it. If trapping in the Road Right Away would disappear then what would your trap line look like? Would your catch stay the same or go down in numbers? In Ia we have the ability to harvest our fur bearing animals in a very efficient manner. I wish I could tell you the percentage of the animals harvested that come from the Road Right Away. My guess would be it would be 50 to 70% of the IA total harvest. I for one will give a little for the long term good of our sport and protect one of our valued areas of trapping.
Demo man gets it and looks at the long term affects of a issue. Everyone belive me I do not like to give up anything that we currently have but a comprimise to a soultion is better than being told what is going to happen. By being proactive with the DNR and working with them puts the trappers in a better position than having a anti giving the DNR a direction to go against us.As Demo man said that NE lost their right to trap in the Road Right Away. We all know that not everyone likes the idea of trapping in the ditches and I for one do not need to give anyone ammo to try and do the same thing in IA as in Ne. If prestaking is creating issues for the DNR then is a nessary part of our trapline or just a tool we could live without?
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Post by ~ADC~ on Feb 3, 2009 9:43:42 GMT -6
Ron said the DNR was concerned about how they would enforce it. I don't buy that. I can't see "no pre-staking sooner than two weeks before season" being any different to enforce than "no pre-staking at all". Either way if someone pre-stakes too soon its a ticket. What were the exact complaints that lead to this vote in the first place? Exactly. It sounds like it was other trappers complaining that caused it based on this post. If so, what exactly were the complaints? also, how and where can we find out whats on the agenda for these meetings? Did you all know this vote was coming and didn't tell us here, to see what we thought? I know Gene made a post on our opinions but it didn't sound like urgent action was required, but rather that we may need a viable option to give the DNR as a compromise. I though the two week limit was a very reasonable alternative. Though I don't pre-stake ROW's now I or my son may want to at some point in the future and if we give it up now, my bet is we'll never see it again. I cannot see where pre-staking ROW's has anything to do with actually trapping ROW's. They are two totally different things. Putting the traps there earlier is still putting the traps there. So there are going to be just as many complaints from other trappers who get beat to locations, whether they get beat to the locations two weeks before season or on opening day. Plus these are the same complainers that will try to set up trails and get set on top of because they hurried to beat the others there and they will complain about that too. Nope, I can't see where giving up the pre-staking completely will lessen any number of complains for those trappers. How does a decision of this magnitude go through under administrative rule yet adding "or a 285# break away device or cable break limit." to the sentence "All snares must have a deer stop." would open the books to all kinds of changes? I hope you all let Dave get his vote in. I'll keep my ITA membership, but until I get more information to convince me I'll have to respectfully disagree with this decision. ~ADC~
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Post by centraliowa (ryan) on Feb 3, 2009 10:26:16 GMT -6
So for us to work with the DNR and keep from loosing ROW trapping because it has happened in other states means we need to forfeit pre staking? What is next Gene? Colorado, Wash, Cali and others lost some form of trapping. Maybe we should voluntarily give up the right to use bait as a way to work closely with the DNR so we don't loose trapping all together? I would guess that if the good ole boys at the ITA meetings would have let every member know that was going to be discussed there would have been a huge turnout of members to discuss this issue.
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Post by skunked on Feb 3, 2009 11:36:32 GMT -6
Coming from Iowa - free to trap ditches, to Illinois - No ditches - No colonies - No snares above water, I can understand wanting to save ROW trapping beyond anything.
The confusion to me in these readings is why did this come up?
Did the ITA shutdown prestaking to save ROW trapping because the DNR was breathing down their neck?
OR
Did the ITA shutdown prestaking to save the pain of listening to trappers bitch about other trappers trapping "their" ROW?
If it is the first reason it may be a good idea. If it is the second reason it is BS.
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 3, 2009 12:30:20 GMT -6
As far as I know this alleged problem arose because of trappers. Not antis, not the general public, but from trappers. With this being the case I dont feel we need to suggest to the DNR that we give up anything. I hear about fisherman complain all the time about other fisherman beating them to their favorite spot. Perhaps we better ask for restrictions there. I see people placing yard sale signs in the road right of way. Maybe that better stop too because I wanted to put a sign at that spot. As has been pointed out this will not stop the complaining. Next it will be ROW trapping followed by the demise of trapping altogether. I deeply feel that it is a tremendous mistake for us to voluntarily give up anything. If the DNR does, so be it but they need to be reminded that they are our employees. Their pay comes from our tax dollars and should we not like their approach the ballot box can put them out of work in hurry.
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Post by paulb on Feb 3, 2009 12:31:39 GMT -6
ADC WROTE IN PART:: What were the exact complaints that lead to this vote in the first place? Exactly. It sounds like it was other trappers complaining that caused it based on this post. If so, what exactly were the complaints? I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THIS ALSO
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 3, 2009 12:32:43 GMT -6
as a side note. I apparently was still considered a director since my name was called during roll call. I had no prior notice of this development. In fact I recieved NO meeting agenda whatsoever.
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Post by jdrogge on Feb 3, 2009 13:38:15 GMT -6
This won't stop the whiners from complaining it will just give it a new angle, next year they will be crying because someone came along after they had something set and set it up also. I don't know who these guys think they are that they should have exclusive rights on public ground, but apparently they can't handle competition at all. Competition is a part of trapping, and if you're gonna be successful you had better deal with that fact. As for where the complaints are coming from, when it said in a earlier post that it was from a NW IA director I would bet that my partner and I were who some of them were complaining about. We prestaked snares on thurs and fri before season last year, and on opening day when we got around Peterson IA we had notes from a couple of local guys on our setups saying we were doing something illegal blah blah and they called the warden. No problem, I called the warden and he assured me that we had done nothing wrong and he had told those gentlemen that, that however was not the answer those guys wanted. One of them in particular is big into the ITA and I sure his next course of action was to go crying to them, basically because he was not used to having competition and was being outworked. I have had lots of guys come along and set on a trail that I already had set....big deal some days I'm gonna get the coon and some days he will, no hard feelings. I sure as hell don't run bitching to the DNR because somebody set up "my" hotspot that was supposed to be "all mine".....didn't these peoples parents teach them how to share LOL ;D. I count on using the best equipment and techniques that I can to overcome competition. On that note one of the guys from above that we had problems with had left his phone number on his note, so I called him to hash out our differences, after listening to him whine for 10 mins that we had set his spots he told me how impressed he was with our setups he told me they were the nicest he had ever seen, and when he pulled up he must have forgotten which ones were his because a lot of our gear went with him. I didn't call the DNR or the ITA complaining though because all that does is give trappers a black eye and drags up a bunch of crap just like this.
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Post by centraliowa (ryan) on Feb 3, 2009 14:12:38 GMT -6
i belong to the ITA and don't feel like i was represented fairly. The ITA takes our money and says that they are going to protect our rights? how is this action protecting our rights. If i was not a part of this association i would really be upset. i have sent my district director a email but have not got a reply yet.
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Post by dfox on Feb 3, 2009 14:43:30 GMT -6
So if we get rid of pre-staking in the ROW, let's start in on getting rid of pre-setting of deer stands and putting bank poles out and making permanent duck blinds before season on public land. Why should the trappers take it in the shorts all the time?
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Post by 4fur on Feb 3, 2009 15:05:19 GMT -6
Apparently it is not only trappers complaining but county road crews, farmers, etc. Commodity prices hit record highs this past summer and so did hay, $120 alfalfa and even $100 brome were common in my area. I saw ground mowed where I've never seen it hayed before. And I've never seen the road crews do a better job of mowing our road ditches than this year, my area almost looked like a park. This coupled with a very optimistic fur market forecast created a lot more traffic in the public ROW's than ever before.
I do little or no prestaking so this law change would actually benefit my catch since I'm in an area where one competitor routinely digs pockets and presets 1000-1200 traps. And it's better than MN where I believe Jim B. said they are allowed NO preseason work.
Lets hope this issue does not have enough time or support to make law this session and we as a trapping community can have more time to discuss and formulate our options.
Gene Purdy is a trapper's trapper and if he supported this issue, it must have merit and necessity.
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Post by jim blakley aka Gadget on Feb 3, 2009 18:22:23 GMT -6
Iowa, Ive Always envyed your ability to pre-stake ! I dont Invy this this can of worms youve got ! Remember you are Trappers and disagreements aside , We all should stand together.... GOOD LUCK!!!!!
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Post by paulb on Feb 3, 2009 18:58:44 GMT -6
Iowa, Ive Always envyed your ability to pre-stake ! I dont Invy this this can of worms youve got ! Remember you are Trappers and disagreements aside , We all should stand together.... GOOD LUCK!!!!! I HAVE A LOT OF FUN POKING FUN AT MY MINNESOTA FRIENDS,,BUT THIS IS VERY GOOD ADVISE,,,I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO POST A RESPONSE TO THIS POST AND MY FEELINGS HAVE NOT CHANGED,,,BUT,,,,,,,,, I ONLY KNOW 3 DIRECTORS PERSONALLY AND ONLY 1 PRETTY GOOD,,,I AM SURE HOWEVER THEY VOTED THEY WERE THINKING OF OUR GREAT HOBBY,,, AFTER LONG THINKING AND CONSIDERABLE THOT I HAVE DECIDED THE MAIN PROBLEM HERE WAS NON-COMMUNICATION,,,SURE THE TOPIC CAME UP HERE ON THIS SITE BUT WHERE WAS THE WARNING THAT IT WAS GOING TO COME TO A VOTE,,,WHAT WE NEED IS A PERIODICAL NEWS LETTER SENT OUT TO MEMBERS,,,COST A LOT??,, I AM SURE,,,I READ ALL OF THE MINUTES POSTED ON THE ITA WEBSIDE FOR THE LAST YEAR,,,NO WHERE WAS THERE AN ACCOUNTING AS TO HOW SOLVENT THE ITA IS,,ARE WE BROKE,,COMFORTABLE,,,DO WE NEED TO RAISE THE DUES?,,,BUT I DID SEE A LOT OF REQUESTS FOR MONEY AND I DID NOT SEE ANY THAT WERE TURNED DOWN,,,A LOT OF $$$ WENT OUT, TO I AM SURE DESERVING PEOPLE AND ORGANIZATIONS,,,BUT AS MEMBERS AREN'T WE INTITLED TO BEING KEPT ABREAST OF WHAT IS HAPPENING,,,I WILL WATCH WITH INTEREST FOR THE MINUTES OF THE BOD FEB. MEETING TO BE POSTED ON THE ITA WEB PAGE,,ALSO THE WAS NO MENTION OF THE PRE-STAKING IN THE ROW MENTIONED IN ANY OF THE MINUTES,,OR ANY MENTION IN THE DNR REPORTS OF A PRROBLEM WITH PRE-STAKING,,IT WAS MENTIONED IN A EARLIER POST THE DNR SAW A PRONLEM WITH ENFOREMENT,,,WHAT DO THEY GET PAID FOR IF NOT ENFORCEMENT,,,ARN'T THESE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT WANT TO RAISE OUR TRAPPING LICENSE BY A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT?...,NOW BEFORE I AM TOLD IF I DON'T LIKE WHAT IS BEING DONE TO GET ON THE BOARD ,,,IF U HAVE ACCESS TO THE EARLY 1960 RECORDS OF THE ITA YOU WILL SEE I SERVED THEN,,,MAYBE EVEN BEFORE SOME OF U WERE BORN,, ,,FOR LISTING TO MY RANTING,,,,ONE THOT,,,I HAVE TRAPPED IN IOWA SINCE 1950,,NEVER MISSED A SEASON AND HAVE YET TO SET A TRAP IN ANY RIGHT OF WAT PROPERTY,,SO IF THIS DOES BECOME REALITY IT IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT ME,,
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Post by furman on Feb 3, 2009 19:40:31 GMT -6
If money is short on getting info out then look to send it out on e-mails.
Have a spot on the ITA web site where you can sign up for updates and I’m sure they could pin something on this site so we can spread the word on issues that Iowa trapper are facing.
If more guy were aware of this issue I think we could have avoided a lot of this
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Post by x-demoman on Feb 3, 2009 21:18:42 GMT -6
Paul I do remember the 60s and like you say most probably don't. We have fought some pretty rugged battles and I don't think we have ever lost war. In the late 70s we almost lost all conibears and snares EVERYWHERE. The ITA was up against the coon hunters, Cactus and the DNR. This is where the current laws governing the use of snares in the road ditches and the spacing of the conibear in the road ditch began. I was the ITA president during that time and provided imput and worked with 2 Division heads in the DNR + the furbearer biologist. At that time I was the scape goat because we compromised on the 2 issues. If we had not been able to reach a compromise then your PRIVILEGES for using these tools would not be here today.
If you think I do not represent my constituents let me offer this. When 2 guys go through an area 4-6 weeks in advance of the open of trapping season and set 600+ snares and you receive complaints from 20+trappers and farmers who are you going to represent 2 or 20+? These same "trappers" show no respect for fellow trappers and land owners who do you represent?
If the previous scenario is incorrect grandpa please correct me. If it is on target I sure could use some support because it seems I have become the _ _ _ hole of the state because I am willing to stand up for what I believe and what I think best serves the trapping community today and in the future.
It was asked why Furtakers were not involved. This was the BOD meeting of the Iowa Trappers Association. Dave P has served as a Director at Large until recently. With all he currently has on his plate he could not attend or I am sure he would have represented the Furtakers.
If the DNR chooses to move ahead with this issue Iam sure the meeting dates, times and locations for public imput will be posted here.
Gene Director Dist 2
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Post by bluedot64 on Feb 3, 2009 22:14:49 GMT -6
Demoman, you have been thrown under the bus -- way under.
I hope you go and spray yourself with some Scocth Guard so most of this crap slides off. Most of us out here have run into this at sometime or another, mostly in the 80s
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Post by Scott W. on Feb 4, 2009 6:33:32 GMT -6
Hey Gene, I feel for you, and have seen you work hard for us for years. Thank you. I keep coming back to my own wondering, if the current legality of prestaking were precisely articulated in the rules and regulation book, could a lot of misunderstandings be avoided? After not trapping for about 15 years due to job commitments, I decided to get back in the field to do something I really enjoy. While doing some pre season scouting, and talking with a couple of neighborhood boys, the subject of another trapper's snare, pre staked in the ROW came up. Ignorant, as I am, I called the CO and was informed that it was indeed legal. Had that been printed in the rule book I would not have bothered the CO. All that being said, I did not do any prestaking or ROW trapping, as I had more permission on private land than I could imagine. I guess it just appears to me that some guys are going to take it hard if they think someone has an unfair advantage over them. Bottom line question to me is, Does it damage the resource? All the other concerns are secondary in my opinion. Saw it mentioned that some consider snares "unethical". How can an inert piece of steel be unethical? Trappers have always seemed to be the kicking boy when it comes to getting their activities restricted. The least we can do is not kick each other. I don't think bowhunters hate shotgun deer hunters like some trappers seem to hate ROW trappers or snaremen. Scott Webb
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Post by dfox on Feb 4, 2009 7:26:49 GMT -6
Hey Gene, What was Cactus? And your right, you are going to stand up for the 20 + guys who are doing the right thing and not the two who are giving everyone a bad name.
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Post by centraliowa (ryan) on Feb 4, 2009 7:59:09 GMT -6
i just got off the phone with Craig S. this whole issue is the result of other trappers. so it seems that it is trappers vs trappers. that is a bad situation. no matter how it is explained i am still upset that the ITA did not put a notice out to members before voting on this. If this has been a issue for three years why could they officers of the ITA not notify members that this was going on?? if 20 trappers are mad because 2 trappers come through and prestake, maybe those 20 trappers need find additional land, work harder, find missed area's or something other than try to get the law changed. i have been crossing paths with minnow on the trapline for the last 4 years. if he beats me to a spot i find another one to set. i am not going to complain that i got beat to my fav spot. what a bunch of babies!
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Post by ~ADC~ on Feb 4, 2009 8:09:45 GMT -6
Gene, you'll always be my buddy. If you took any of the comments I made as any more than respectfully disagreeing with your vote, I apologize. The reason I disagree is simply because I can't see how eliminating the pre-staking will do more than postpone the same old complaints from the same old people. The trappers will still get beat to their spots and the farmers will still hit the stakes with their mowers, same as it is now, and same as it would be with a two week limit. If the trappers were legal in your senerio, the two of them, vs. the 20 complainers, would of gotten my vote based on what I have read in this post and seen on my trap lines over the years. If there is more to it than that, like I said, I'd love to hear the exact complaints, and/or the threats the DNR were making to remove ROW trapping if the ITA didn't step up and do something now. ~ADC~
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Post by beaver23 on Feb 4, 2009 8:57:12 GMT -6
gene .i must bring this to your att. you stated that 2 trappers pre set 600 snares before season,then the next words out of your mouth was you had complaints from 20+ trappers.looks like you want to represent the winers to me.if the farmers and the public have a complaint and the complaint is forceable,where is your game warden and why isnt he doing his job?
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