|
|
Post by Scott W. on Feb 24, 2009 15:13:55 GMT -6
I agree with Chris. As a hobby trapper pre-staking is unfair and it needs to go. From what I've read all indications of you guys keeping pre-staking are strictly greed motivated and you're taking little consideration into promoting trapping!  Oh BOY, I'm just a hobby trapper. I don't pre-stake or trap ROW, but I don't think pre-staking is unfair. When ever I hear about using rules and regulations to make things "fair" I get really, really riled up. Our coon population in Iowa needs a high volume, high pressure harvest to remain healthy. Trapping is the best way to achieve high numbers, therefore these guys who achieve high numbers through pre-staking really are promoting trapping by showing what can be done. I would no more call one of these high numbers pre-stakers greedy than I would have one of them call me lazy because I don't use the methods or hours in the day that they do. Scott |
|
|
|
Post by ~ADC~ on Feb 24, 2009 15:59:29 GMT -6
ChrisF - could you please give your opinion on the two-week prior and pull everything at the end of beaver season thing we have discussed on other threads... Also why it was not even an option to the DNR? 
~ADC~
|
|
|
|
Post by chrisf on Feb 24, 2009 16:53:27 GMT -6
Sure. My opinion is that one minute before 0800hrs is too early, let alone two weeks. Season starts at 0800hrs, and that is the earliest that I believe any trapping equipment should be placed on any public access area. I do agree with the pull everything at the end of season. I think 'coon traps should be removed at the end of 'coon season. This is my opinion as a trapper, not as a DNR representative. I have not been authorized to give any official positions of the department and therefore cannot speak for the positions of the entire department.
cf
|
|
|
|
Post by longpond on Feb 24, 2009 16:54:14 GMT -6
A lot of time has been spent with the woulda, coulda, shoulda bullcrap. I think the what can I do now plan is a better route to take. There is a Prestaking where do we go from here theard on the forum now. So lets see who would rather keep sittin on the dead horse and bitchin or who gets over there and tries to move foward..........JEFF
|
|
|
|
Post by coontrapper on Feb 24, 2009 17:44:29 GMT -6
I think the intimidation factor it just a load of B.S. I'm only 17 and have only traped ROW's for 3 years and if I was intimidated by someone else trapping I couldn't trap around here. Every bridge and culvert has multiple trappers and most trails have multiple snares or bodygrips. IF YOU DON'T LIKE COMPETITION DON'T TRAP ROW'S
|
|
|
|
Post by iayogi17 on Feb 24, 2009 17:51:54 GMT -6
ok I started this tread and now I have so details. The prestaking deal was brought up at a meeting (which sounds like most are in favor of removing) and it sounds like they are going to be proposing a law change. they are going to be doing that in march/april (Commission meeting). then they will hold an ICN meeting to hear public comments in april-ish. So we that are in favor of pre-staking need to be at this ICN meeting in april. oh ah pre-staker are the minority to the DNR eyes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Scott W. on Feb 24, 2009 20:02:20 GMT -6
Yogi,
Can we have any input that will affect the commission meeting or do we have to wait for the comment period to have any say that may be listened to. Please keep us posted. Scott
|
|
Goose
Shy Talker
Posts: 3
|
Post by Goose on Feb 24, 2009 20:04:26 GMT -6
After sitting back and reading all the complaining about pre-staking I must say it is interesting how defensive the topic is among the responding trappers. I just started viewing this site about 2-3 weeks ago and usually sat back with the enjoyment of reading what everyone had to say without posting a response.
If we are starting to compare our sport with deer and ducks, I need to rethink my dedication and interest towards trapping. It is ridiculous that we compare a tree stand scenario to pre-staking, another post took the words right out of my mouth (apples and oranges). Other postings, I believe Dave, are comparing a "now v. then" theory which is completely ignorant (not you Dave). There was motivation back then and there was no Internet and video games during the fur boom. Coon received premium prices of $40 plus, traps were $30/dozen, and fuel prices were far from $4/gallon.
For the trapper who pre-stakes and believes that it is the only way to catch more and put out more sets, you are completely wrong. All you guys in favor have one thing in common, GREED. I believe Chris is right, pre-staking is more time consuming. After trying and failing numerous times to compete with Chris, he does back his technique up with proven numbers. Anyone who can go the first 5 days (w/o pre-staking) and average right at 100 a day has got my respect to shut up and listen. Obviously, a lesson can be learned.
If this is such life ending decision for some, then you should contact your local director and voice your opinion. A couple of directors presented results from their area which I think is good. One more point, if you need to pre-stake in order to run a high volume of traps, you need to cut back because you are in over your head. Eliminate the greed of pre-staking.
Later,
|
|
|
|
Post by daveplueger on Feb 24, 2009 20:42:16 GMT -6
Goose please explain to me how trying to harvest the greatest number of animals in a short period of time can be defined as greed? As I stated in another post if thats the case anyone who utilizes the land and its resources could be labeled as being greedy. You arent looking at the big picture here. Every time we lose a priveledge we are that much closer to losing it all. Is that what some of you against pre-staking want? I havent pre-staked the ROW in years but we must try and retain EVERYTHING we have as long as we possibly can. When ROW trapping goes next (which it inevitably will) I dont want to hear a SINGLE person complain that was against pre-staking!!
|
|
|
|
Post by daveplueger on Feb 24, 2009 20:47:03 GMT -6
Chris, tell me how your able to average 100 coon a day for the first 5 days? How are you possibly getting enough sets out opening day to take those types of numbers? A very good night is 40% catch per trap ratio. If your bringing in that many coon imagine what you could do if you pre-staked! Goose, why isnt harvesting 100 plus coon a day greedy?
|
|
|
|
Post by Brett H. on Feb 24, 2009 21:06:08 GMT -6
Wow. 100 coon for five nights without prestake! Impressive. How exactly is that NOT greed? I don't catch that and do prestake so how am I the greedy one?
|
|
|
|
Post by Bristleback on Feb 24, 2009 21:19:27 GMT -6
Seems to me some real jealousy shining through against the trappers who are:organized, scout, and bust their humps and make large catches..........whether they prestake or not.....simple jealousy.
A trapper who bust their humps and make large catches are the fartherst thing from lazy........yet they're labeled GREEDY......LMBO! Pure jealousy! Grade school krap!
|
|
|
|
Post by muskrat72 on Feb 24, 2009 21:55:09 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by x-demoman on Feb 24, 2009 22:04:03 GMT -6
5 more replys today from my questionaire. 3 no pre placing 2 its ok but not necessary. 13-3 and you question who am I representing. Iam representing the majority and they are againt the pre setting. Good to see some of the silent ones have posted their opinion aye or nay.
|
|
|
|
Post by justwannano on Feb 24, 2009 22:15:00 GMT -6
5 more replys today from my questionaire. 3 no pre placing 2 its ok but not necessary. 13-3 and you question who am I representing. Iam representing the majority and they are againt the pre setting. Good to see some of the silent ones have posted their opinion aye or nay. So did you ask why they don't use pre staking? How many do you suppose would answer something like I don't want to go to that trouble? Or I don't want to take the time? Pre staking is just another tool and the smart trappers use every tool at their disposal. |
|
|
|
Post by Eric Rector on Feb 24, 2009 22:52:38 GMT -6
I'm at 2-2 on pre-staking. 4 responses out of 65 sent out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bankrunner on Feb 24, 2009 23:19:52 GMT -6
Here is a thought I've been thinking about on this subject. Do you think it is really all the complaints or is the DNR tired of a group of sportsman profiting on "their" wildlife? No other group can sell such as deer, ducks, pheasants, etc.
With the exception of problematic beaver, I don't think the populations of coon, coyote, etc. would be a concern to them. Farmers around here only have problems with coon in they are in their barn or tearing up silage bags. Otherwise, the field damage is blamed on deer and turkeys. Any thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by justwannano on Feb 24, 2009 23:59:41 GMT -6
I don't think the DNR cares if we make money on the wildlife.
In order for them to make that money they would have to trap and handle the fur. way too much trouble. We also buy trapping liscenses.
I hate to mention it here but there are a few that would benefit from stricter trapping laws. Animal damage control guys would have more work.
What happens if trapping is outlawed? The farmers will just use poison. I'm thinking its already happening.
just
|
|
|
|
Post by daveplueger on Feb 25, 2009 7:12:03 GMT -6
Trust me just, the DNR does care if we make money on their wildlife. Simply too hard for them to kep track of the income of which the state would like to get their hands on. (taxes) Precisely why they made it mandatory for Ginseng harvesters to sign a state document each time root was sold. This was never done until this year.
Gene, 16 trappers is a very miniscule number compared to the overall number of trappers in your district. The only way to have an accurate assesment of the situation is to get responses from EVERY trapper.
|
|
|
|
Post by rob on Feb 25, 2009 8:35:23 GMT -6
If I'm greedy because I want to make a profit, then I guess I'm greedy.
I don't think there's a trapper out there that doesn't want to catch as much as he can, some just go the extra mile.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brett H. on Feb 25, 2009 9:23:43 GMT -6
If I'm greedy because I want to make a profit, then I guess I'm greedy. I don't think there's a trapper out there that doesn't want to catch as much as he can, some just go the extra mile.  |
|
bobafett
Hyper-Active Trap Talker
Posts: 146
|
Post by bobafett on Feb 25, 2009 10:43:51 GMT -6
The notion that a trapper is "greedy" because he desires to put up a lot of fur is absurd. I dont know if some of you guys are digging ditch for min wage or what but even a guy who puts up say 1000 coon a month still isnt clearing more than 5-6k per month at best!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by 4fur on Feb 25, 2009 15:37:10 GMT -6
Sure glad to see some new members here even if you are expressing opinions that differ from mine. Check that, especially since they differ from mine.
I have nothing but respect for any CO, but I have to love you Chris! You are truly one of us! We aren't all long liners on this site but we are all very passionate about trapping. Hope you will consider checking in with us after this issue is resolved because you undoubtedly would be an asset to this forum in terms of fur taking knowledge but also on rules and regulations.
But I feel your rational for banning prestaking is based on a false premise: Trapping will benefit from banning prestaking because it will lead to better retention and recruitment of participants. On the contrary, I am strongly opposed to this statement. "It's for the kids" worked for the Jerry Lewis telethons but not for me in this debate. I don't believe many young trappers cut their teeth in public ROW's, I know I didn't. I feel it's just not a good environment to learn in because of competition, theft issues and a fairly complex set of rules and regulations that govern the public ROW. It may indeed be more prudent to develop a mentoring system where they are accompanied by an experienced veteran or develop a public ROW training course.
Am I anti new blood? On the contrary. I agree with you 100% Chris that recruitment and retention is the future of our passion. Like most members of this forum, I have helped a good number of new and less experienced trappers. I'll take a back seat to very few who have freely given more knowledge, equipment and encouragement to trappers in my area or share more information to members on this site, which include many novice and intermediate trappers. Of the most recent students, two used prestaking as tools to get their lines out this season while attending high school and another looks to use prestaking as a tool next year to facilitate the job he hopes to have after graduating from ISU this spring. Prestaking was his only option last season other than waiting until Thanksgiving break. "Hobby trappers" (I'm using your term here Chris and like you used it, it is no way meant to be derogatory) could benefit the most from prestaking IMHO. It can actually facilitate a trapline while still meeting their work, family, community and other obligations.
Lastly I need to state that I don't even have a dog in this fight. I never have prestaked much...I'm not smart enough to snare coon without damaging their pelts and I pride myself on selling prime fur so I see no advantage for me hurrying up to wait until fur is ready. In my area this is about November 10th for coon, Thanksgiving for mink and December 10th for canines. And when I was younger and really could have benefited from prestaking, I didn't even know it was legal! Because it is not listed in the regulations I feel it might just be a communication issue. But I do see potential advantages for many and I hate to see a prestake ban which I'm sure you will agree we will never get back. But the biggest reason I am opposed to a ban is I strongly feel that any right or privilege we concede leaves us one step closer to entirely losing trapping. Can we live without prestaking? Most if not all of us can easily answer "Yes." But the more relevant question will come much sooner if we allow this ban, "Can we live without trapping?"
And Goose, thanks for speaking up! It took a lot of guts! I bet you are a really nice guy but, like many of us speaking on this forum about this emotional topic, came off brash and argumentative. I don't consider myself a numbers man but some would. I will admit that I am greedy but not in the context you mentioned. It truly breaks my heart to think my two little girls will not only be denied the opportunity to prestake a small trapline they can check on their way to school but will quite likely be denied many other forms of trapping as we now know it today. I am indeed greedy in the context that I strongly believe we can not allow any anti-trapping legislation like this to proceed without contesting it. Even if it has little or no immediate effect on us personally!
|
|
|
|
Post by Bristleback on Feb 25, 2009 16:04:47 GMT -6
Well said.
|
|
|
|
Post by tommy52208 on Feb 25, 2009 16:47:14 GMT -6
Very well said! 4fur 4president!
|
|
|
|
Post by centraliowa (ryan) on Feb 25, 2009 17:56:00 GMT -6
well said.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kelly on Feb 25, 2009 18:08:19 GMT -6
Amen, Ditto, Right On The Money!
|
|
|
|
Post by jim blakley aka Gadget on Feb 25, 2009 20:14:22 GMT -6
I dont have a horse in this race, but I have so many friends in Iowa that I feel like Im hurting with you . Its a shame that youve lost pre-staking. Ive envyed your ability to this for years. That said, For long liners It Isnt the end of the world. Here In MN. we cant do any thing to pre-empt a trapping site, and some of us do all right, even with this restriction.
Jim...
|
|
