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Post by k9 on Feb 24, 2009 8:09:46 GMT -6
*EDIT (~ADC~): Let's not make any more posts on the prestaking issue. We'll cover all we need to in this post. The rest of the previous posts are all in the archives under "discussions of Iowa laws."
OK guys lets stop jumping our ITA Directors and start dealing with this as best we can. Where do we go from here?
I have not heard for sure that this is a done deal, so lets deal with it. In fact, I think Chris is telling us on the other thread that nothing is for sure or set in stone yet.
Lets continue on with our challenge to the ITA vote unless we get to the point that nothing is to gain from it. I think that point will be when we hear that DNR has FOR SURE administratively done something with this. If we reach that point FOR SURE (because we are not sure at this time) then we should drop the challenge because it serves no purpose other than to divide trappers.
No matter what has happened I still plan to attend the BOD in April just to see whats going on. I think every trapper should attend one of these once in a while.
Also, if DNR is acting on this for sure, we have an ability to attend meetings and give our input to the DNR about this, if I understand the process right.
It is my belief that many more of us for prestaking will attend such meetings than those against prestaking. It is very easy to call a guy like Chris F and complain over the phone about prestaking. It is quite another thing to go out of your way to attend a meeting and stand up for what you beleive in.
I am assuming these will be input meetings over ICN like some of us attended last year regarding penned animals.
We can bicker over the past or try to control our futures.
What say you?
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Post by dfox on Feb 24, 2009 9:47:16 GMT -6
I think for the most part, the ball is in the DNRs court to decide what they are going to do, regardless of the ITA BOD vote. I firmly believe and this is strictly my opinion, that the DNR has had their mind made up long ago about what to do with pre-staking and are now wanting to implement their plan ( I believe Gene said it has been an issue for about 3 years). I think it is in the best interest of all trappers that we attend upcoming public comment meetings for the DNR to voice our opinions and concerns about the potential change to the pre-staking issue amongst others. Trappers as a whole are in the minority in this state as well as many others, and if they don't hear from more than just a couple of people, they will run all over us. It's easy to change a small group's regulations that don't voice their concern(s), but it's A LOT more difficult to ignore them when we make some noise! The squeeky wheel gets the most greese!
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Post by iayogi17 on Feb 24, 2009 13:02:57 GMT -6
yep need to think of newer way to be faster now. Lawyers get paid good money to look for loop holes in laws.
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Post by skunked on Feb 24, 2009 14:12:24 GMT -6
The squeaky wheel gets the oil/is the first to get replaced. HA HA
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Post by dfox on Feb 24, 2009 14:29:59 GMT -6
The squeaky wheel gets the oil/is the first to get replaced. HA HA There always has to be one comedian in the crowd ;D
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 25, 2009 17:08:13 GMT -6
I have been putting off what I am about to say for awhile now but here it goes. I realize that many are going to hammer me for this statement and thats fine but please hear me out first. If a compromise is needed to retain pre-staking and since the use of snares and the equiptment assoc.with snaring seems to be the biggest problem I would not be afraid to offer snares in the ROW to retain pre-staking. In many instances it has been snares in the ROW that have gained us the most harmful exposure. When a non target (you get the picture) is spinning around in the ditch in a snare and soccer mom Jane happens by with her trusty camera we all pay the price. For the most part foot traps under the bridge isnt the problem and the 220 at the culvert mouth hasnt really been an issue either, 90% of the complaints regarding pre-staking are snares on kill poles. We could still use them on game management areas and of course private ground. This si just a thought and I may change my mind, but at the moment IF the DNR insists on ending pre-staking this would be my suggestion ONLY after EVERY other avenue had been pursude unsuccessfully. Now rip me apart!! LOL
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bobafett
Hyper-Active Trap Talker
Posts: 146
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Post by bobafett on Feb 25, 2009 17:23:15 GMT -6
So better to have the nontarget dead in a coni than easily releasible in a snare?
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Post by ~ADC~ on Feb 25, 2009 17:28:48 GMT -6
Dave you'd be cutting off my head so to speak if I couldn't snare ROWs. The snares I use DO NO HARM to the animals I catch even if its a dog. They are way more humane than most un modified foot traps or conibears. Seeking permission is NOT easy for everyone. Farmers don't need us anymore and putting high dollar traps in ROW are going to result in lots of theft. The problem with pre staking is not just snares and kill poles, as Chris Flynn pointed out the hobby trappers are whining that they are getting beat to locations, wether its dry trails or water sets they will still whine. I'd give up pre staking everywhere if it ment the only option to keep using my snares.
~ADC~
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Post by ~ADC~ on Feb 25, 2009 17:37:56 GMT -6
Also ... you and all us know all that this whole thing is because of just a few people who complained, I'll bet there were fewer than 10 complaints/year total. Pre-staking the ROW's is not a big problem for more than a small handful of trappers. There are some that will say, "yes lets stop it, that way no one will beat me to my locations". They don't think about and are not told that stopping pre staking will only lead to them bieng set upon because the hard working trappers will not take time to look for their sets or even care to. When the former pre-stakers (aka hard workers) set near them they better KNOW they will be in line for fines if they mess with the stuff from the other guy. I thought it would help me at first since I don't pre stake but after thinking about it it would be way worse. Then when the complaints come in what will they take next? We both know.
~ADC~
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bobafett
Hyper-Active Trap Talker
Posts: 146
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Post by bobafett on Feb 25, 2009 17:53:30 GMT -6
Dave Why would you offer to throw snareing the row under the bus when the only thing being threatened is prestaking? Up to this point I have agreed with you 100%. Its the 80/20 rule that applies to every enterprise ina capitalist society. The top 20% provide 80% of the production. If you asked the majority of the participants in any industry if regultion should be passed to inhibit the success of the largest, smartest and most ambitous top 10% guess what their gonna say?? Hell ya, its not fair that their doing way better than we are inthe same business!!!
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Post by justwannano on Feb 25, 2009 17:55:34 GMT -6
No Dave Not even a close option. Whats more if soccer mom sees an animal "spinning around" in the road ditch she should realize it isn't dead. It can be set free by the trapper. Now. About an animal spinning around. Never seen it. I've set a goodly number of snares too. Generally the critter is doing everything it can o hide. Even in plain site. Sooo. No deal. have a good one just
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Post by bearcreektaxi on Feb 25, 2009 18:07:25 GMT -6
I have been putting off what I am about to say for awhile now but here it goes. I realize that many are going to hammer me for this statement and thats fine but please hear me out first. If a compromise is needed to retain pre-staking and since the use of snares and the equiptment assoc.with snaring seems to be the biggest problem I would not be afraid to offer snares in the ROW to retain pre-staking. AHHH Yes, the beggining of the end of it all
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 25, 2009 19:31:40 GMT -6
As I said hear me out. Pre-staking does nothing to influence the public in a negative way. Anyone other than a trapper has no idea that a dog or other non target can be released un harmed. They dont notice a dead critter in a body grip but a photo in the local paper of any live, struggling animal wrapped up tight to a kill pole is BAD medicine for all of us. As I said, I would never give up anything unless the inevitable was evident. I will guarentee this. When ROW trapping goes it will almost certainly be because of snares. I know of several in our Fur Taker Chpt. that wish snares in the ROW were gone a long time ago so I am far from the only one who feels this way.
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 25, 2009 19:34:36 GMT -6
Just, if you have never seen an animal spinning in a snare than you havent taken many coyotes or fox in them. That beaten down catch circle doesnt get there by accident. Its called a burn out for a reason.
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Goose
Shy Talker
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Post by Goose on Feb 25, 2009 19:53:34 GMT -6
Dave, bad idea to give something up in return. Absolutely crazy. It sounds like you want to make everyone suffer. Pre-staking is not an excuse for our so-called busy life. Hell, I work full-time and go to college full-time and I still managed to set 250 traps opening day. Admit it, pre-staking or not, its all hard work. For a pre-staker to claim to work harder is insane. If we are going to compare how hard each of us works harder than the other, lets open a new forum for the bullsh......
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 25, 2009 20:16:28 GMT -6
OK, OK.........the tribal council has spoken and I am wrong..........I withdraw my suggestion!!
One thing goose. Wait till your 45 and than tell me you can still get out 250 sets opening day. Thats where pre-staking is a big advantage for the older guys who dont move quite as fast as we used to. LOL
I dont recall saying that pre-stakers work harder than others.........I will bet anyone one thing........Snares in the ROW will someday make us ALL suffer.
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Post by justwannano on Feb 25, 2009 20:22:54 GMT -6
Just, if you have never seen an animal spinning in a snare than you havent taken many coyotes or fox in them. That beaten down catch circle doesnt get there by accident. Its called a burn out for a reason. You're now talking about a trap circle. Yeah lots of them. Never a critter spinning.
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 25, 2009 20:26:29 GMT -6
I must trap a different breed of yote than you because I've seen hundreds of them spinning around the edge of the catch circle, almost always in reverse.
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Post by justwannano on Feb 25, 2009 20:30:20 GMT -6
OK, OK.........the tribal council has spoken and I am wrong..........I withdraw my suggestion!! One thing goose. Wait till your 45 and than tell me you can still get out 250 sets opening day. Thats where pre-staking is a big advantage for the older guys who dont move quite as fast as we used to. LOL I dont recall saying that pre-stakers work harder than others.........I will bet anyone one thing........Snares in the ROW will someday make us ALL suffer. Q/I will bet anyone one thing........Snares in the ROW will someday make us ALL suffer.[/quote] Maybe if someone keeps bringing them up as something bad which they are not. just
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 25, 2009 20:43:18 GMT -6
You and I both know they arent bad but when someone from the general public witnesses a catch in the ditch in a snare its a different story and the publicity that follows will and does hurt us all. Why do you suppose many other states lost their ROW trapping rights? It wasnt because un informed people thought snares were good I can tell you that!! Education is the key. If you can come up with a few million dollars to run a non stop ad campaign on TV than we may eliminate the problem. Until than we are at the mercy of public perception. Sad, but true.
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Post by bch on Feb 25, 2009 22:06:46 GMT -6
K 9 you started off with a very good post and it went downhill fast. For those of you that wish to keep pre-staking I would suggest you get your collective heads together pick someone to speak for you at the next broad meeting. The first thing to do is call the President and get on the agenda.Then make your case and ask the broad to reconsider there earlier dissession. It is going to be an uphill battle as you have a board that is 50-50 on this issue. The next thing you will have to do if the DNR does something is attend those meetings and vioce your concerns. You also need to let your Director know how you feel on this subject. Sitting in on the feb. BOD meeting, and hearing both sides of this from the outside looking in I can see both sides quite clearly, I do know this much if the anti's want to go for something in Iowa it willbe ROW it is the easiest target for them to get, the DNR knows this and might just be trying to prevent a future battle. Hope this helps you in some way, Kicking this to death here will not get the job done make a plan and work through the system. Best of luck.
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Post by justwannano on Feb 25, 2009 22:46:03 GMT -6
K 9 you started off with a very good post and it went downhill fast. For those of you that wish to keep pre-staking I would suggest you get your collective heads together pick someone to speak for you at the next broad meeting. The first thing to do is call the President and get on the agenda.Then make your case and ask the broad to reconsider there earlier dissession. It is going to be an uphill battle as you have a board that is 50-50 on this issue. The next thing you will have to do if the DNR does something is attend those meetings and vioce your concerns. You also need to let your Director know how you feel on this subject. Sitting in on the feb. BOD meeting, and hearing both sides of this from the outside looking in I can see both sides quite clearly, I do know this much if the anti's want to go for something in Iowa it willbe ROW it is the easiest target for them to get, the DNR knows this and might just be trying to prevent a future battle. Hope this helps you in some way, Kicking this to death here will not get the job done make a plan and work through the system. Best of luck. So what is next. How about an email campaign to the DNR?
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Post by k9 on Feb 26, 2009 8:10:02 GMT -6
Sorry have been busy at work fellas will check in here later.
Dave whether we agree or disagree thanks for having the guts to post your opinion. Fellas I do not agree on negotiaiting away our rights as suggested, but Dave is right snares have and will be the center of most trapping controversy, and this is no exception.
Most laws start with snare problems, and as Dave said one other time many controversies start with a 220, a dog, and a bucket. We can't child proof the world, but lets not get bogged down on one thing and lets keep tossing out some positive suggestions.
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Post by bch on Feb 26, 2009 19:26:13 GMT -6
If you want to know what to do con tact me and I will be happy to help. Bruce Huton 641-340-1123
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Post by daveplueger on Feb 26, 2009 19:56:06 GMT -6
Was just throwing an opinion out there........Sorry if I sent your thread "down hill" K9.......I guess Mr. Hutton has all the answers so I will just shut up.
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Post by TexA on Feb 26, 2009 20:00:20 GMT -6
Rattle Rattle Rattle..........
It all gets back to ONE THING: The Season OPENS @ 8;00a.m. on the First Saturday of NOVEMBER.
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Post by Brett H. on Feb 26, 2009 20:06:22 GMT -6
Rattle Rattle Rattle.......... It all gets back to ONE THING: The Season OPENS @ 8;00a.m. on the First Saturday of NOVEMBER. You are right that is why i do not SET my trap(s) till 800 am!! BUT that has nothing to do with pre-staking!...pre-staking is just another form or pre season work like dying, waxing, adjusting pan tension, and all that!
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Post by x-demoman on Feb 26, 2009 20:17:02 GMT -6
Better be careful Bruce you may be loosing votes.
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Post by bch on Feb 26, 2009 20:30:07 GMT -6
All I was going to do it let them know the next steps they need to take to get there points across to the board. This is no different than what the nta had a few years back but no one wanted to go through the process.
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Post by ringtail on Feb 28, 2009 9:46:20 GMT -6
If we lose prestaking , how about we bump up the starting time from 8 to sunrise so we can take full advantage of daylight hours?
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