Prestaking enforcability

[k9]

OK I can't look at any new proposed law without putting thought as to whether or not if need be, can I enforce it?

This is one of the big arguments against break away snare provisions, is how do we define a break away snare then enforce them at later dates?

I think at the ICN meetings one of the issues I may touch on is enforcement of prestaking laws.

Now enforcement of prestaked traps would be quite easy as long as the trap is tagged.

However I have seen sample language that would cover rerod stakes, drowning cables, Pogos, basically anything that does not belong in the ditch.

Fellas I would have to really get lucky, work my arse off (and still get lucky), or actually see the trapper putting the stake in to enforce it.

Just finding a prestaked piece of rerod in a creek would be next to impossible. Imagine trying to find a Pogo. A kill pole would be easy to find, but impossible to enforce unless you can associate a name to it.

Take the concrete blocks I have stashed here and there. It's just a concrete block until I attach a trap to it.

So lets have a discussion about can this law realistically be enforced?

[k9]

Keep in mind I think enforcement of this statewide would be reactive to complaints, probably not proactive. So I suppose someone may call in who saw a prestaker or whatever. But understand, from my side of the law most complainers wish to remain anonymous, so I have to start from scratch.

[jdrogge]

I agree that it would be a difficult one to enforce. Personally my partner and I play by the rules so we won't test it, but there are plenty out there who will do what they want regardless of the legality of it, same as there has always been.

[iayogi17]

a stake is not a trap stake until a trap is attached and anyone could use a stake/block/... and not claim it to be theirs. hard rule to enforce i think

[gopherkiller]

seems to me prestakeing only exists in a trappers world.
mowing season is only about 4 months long and this seems to be the only competiton for activity in a ditch.
one step over the fence on privite property and this issue is null and void.
seems to be much bigger fish to fry... just my thoughts
yes i think enforcing prestaking is a bigger joke than the issue is itself.. IMO

[~ADC~]

Good point Bruce. I guess if someone pre-placed their stakes or killpoles like bearcreektaxi does now there's no way to enforce anythiung against it as long as the tag is not there til after 8am. opening day. But coulod they be removed as debris in the ditch prior to season as well IF we indeed did lose pre-staking ROW's?



~ADC~

[sako222j]

At what date and time do you determine the "stashed" block to be used as an anchor or labeled as "garbage" and therefore, littering if "stashed" in the ROW and not on permissable private property? If this pre-staking thing comes full circle, not only could the act of pre-staking be illegal, do you think they could site you for littering as well?

[k9]

Thats the point ADC we do not need a law to tell us it is scrap, debris, or whatever. Without a trap attached to it it already is. It is nobody's property if left out after season, however if a couple weeks before season I would see it as a trappers property.

From an enforcement standpoint, it would be impossible to tell who that trapper is unless you see him putting them out.

[daveplueger]

Thats why I have said all along, ending pre-staking will solve absolutely nothing. Some will continue to place trapping related equiptment in the field prior to the opening date and the same old complaints will roll in to the DNR, and next time its bye, bye ROW trapping. Some how we as trappers have got to educate other trappers to the gravity of the situation. As K9 has stated before, this is mainly a problem between trappers and we need to address the situation among ourselves or we wont have to worry about pre-staking the ROW because it will be off limits any way.

[iayogi17]

here is how the new rule would read:
POTENTIAL ADMINISTRATIVE RULE CHANGES. THESE ARE STILL SUBJECT OT CONSIDERABLE DEBATE, DISCUSSION, AND APPROPRIATE WORD SMITHING.

1). No person shall place or leave any stake, or non-indigenous set making material upon any public road or highway right-of-away except during the open season.

2). Any animal captured or trapped must be immediately released or reduced to possession by euthanization. Basically this would stop the live wild coyote/animal market. I would like to footnote this rule somehow encourage the release of bobcats, otters, and maybe foxes.

[k9]

I have been thinkiing on this and can think of no real good way to enforce most ROW prestaking. It will for sure stop traps from being prestaked, but staking materials that can be quick connected to, almost impossible to enforce.