Trapping politics

[k9]

I am a trap prestaker but prestake very few snares. I do on private ground pre stake many snares, but not in the ROW. I am too paranoid about someone opening the loop on me.

Prestaking probably doubles the numbero f sets I can get out on opening morning, and if prestaking is banned I will probably still pre set a stake at water sets with a length of chain that I can just quick connect to. Most years I can tell you every set I make what the staking conditions will be before we ever get out of the truck. But a drought year or bad flood year like some can really be a game changer, and most wasted time is spent on staking sets, not setting traps.

This whole problem revolves around ignorant trappers who feel a sense of "ownership" over a trail that they staked weeks before, but were not there first on opening morning to set. I hate these little game players and thier trifling ways gain us many laws over the years. It is great to have a good relationship with DNR, but if we call them for every little thing then we are inviting them to influence our sport in restrictive ways when we could work it out ourselves.

In my area we have an easy rule when it comes to prestaking. First come first served after 8am opening morning. If you weren't there first its your loss.

It is a clear difference in trapper mentality. One group of trappers prestake to "claim" a spot, the other prestakes to save time on opening morning. I am in the latter group. I have several gravel roads that I do not prestake on because other trappers lines overlap them and I know someone may beat me to it. I have other roads that I have never seen another trapper on that I prestake the heck out of.

Creekman Coon was prestaked on one such a road last year. It is crawling with trappers, and I stopped prestaking it several years back and just set up opening morning. I stepped into one ditch and pulled the grass away were I normally slam in a pocket set or slap set each year. Whoa! There was already a pocket there. Looked around and one of my local buddies had three sets there, had just set them after 8 opening morning. Creekman's Duke was set aside by the other guy, and a set in his spot.

None of us fought about it. DNR was not needed to work this out. No whining was neccessary. My buddy was there first after 8 am opening morning, and that's all that matters.

I can't understand why some of these guys are so helpless/selfish that they can't just show other trappers some respect and handle the deal on a first come first served basis.

A two week rule will not effect me, as I only start prestaking the week or two before anyway. On a coon line, so much can change that much prestaking done earlier will be for nothing, unless the trapper knows the area well enough to know the difference between good annual hot trails, and those just being temporarily used to go to a food source.

I can slap in a snare so fast that it is not relevant to me, but traps are a different story, when it comes to water staking.

[bearcreektaxi]

Dec 21, 2008 16:59:58 GMT -6 k9 said:

This whole problem revolves around ignorant trappers who feel a sense of "ownership" over a trail that they staked weeks before

From my experience these ignorant people feel they own the trail wether is pre-staking is involved or not. I've lost count on the number of people I heard say "I've set this trail for the last x number of years, it's mine" Honestly, at that point it's a complete waste of time for me. Yes I can legally set it but the guy will probably just steal my catch, gear, or both. In the 20 minutes I waste arguing like a 3rd grader with somebody I can find 5 trails that he missed that will probably generate atleast 3 more coon.

My point here is I think were blaming prestaking for a few more problems than it actually deserves. Take away prestaking, the same Jack-ass will think he owns the trail anyway.

Another question I have is how exactly will the DNR determine who's stake is prestaked in the trail, you don't have to put your name on it? I can't wait to get blamed for someone elses stake.

I also see absolutely no difference between staking for a coil or staking for a snare and how will the CO be able to determine which use the stake was intended for?

We have enough rules that are not enforced or very vague, lets not add more.

[iayogi17]

Is this prestaking deal going to the big house and they're trying to change or is this just something that people are getting worked up about on the net

[paulb]

a sleeping dog maybe?

[~ADC~]

Dec 21, 2008 18:30:30 GMT -6 bearcreektaxi said:

Dec 21, 2008 16:59:58 GMT -6 k9 said:

This whole problem revolves around ignorant trappers who feel a sense of "ownership" over a trail that they staked weeks before

From my experience these ignorant people feel they own the trail wether is pre-staking is involved or not. I've lost count on the number of people I heard say "I've set this trail for the last x number of years, it's mine" Honestly, at that point it's a complete waste of time for me. Yes I can legally set it but the guy will probably just steal my catch, gear, or both. In the 20 minutes I waste arguing like a 3rd grader with somebody I can find 5 trails that he missed that will probably generate atleast 3 more coon.

My point here is I think were blaming prestaking for a few more problems than it actually deserves. Take away prestaking, the same Jack-ass will think he owns the trail anyway.

Another question I have is how exactly will the DNR determine who's stake is prestaked in the trail, you don't have to put your name on it? I can't wait to get blamed for someone elses stake.

I also see absolutely no difference between staking for a coil or staking for a snare and how will the CO be able to determine which use the stake was intended for?

We have enough rules that are not enforced or very vague, lets not add more.

I agree with the part of the guy trapping the trail x number of years comment. P.A. is as bad as they come with that. He's gotten lots of other trappers blamed for his antics including me.


BUT... The "pre-staking" we are talking about here is staking the trap/snare out prior to season, not just the stake with no trap/snare. You and your x-partner are the only ones I've ever seen just put out the stake without the snare.

~ADC~

[x-demoman]

Well said K9. If everyone felt as you and your guys do there would be not problem. It is just a small manority as it always is that causes the problems.

Is this going to the big house?
As I stated earlier this can be handled by Administrative Rule if it needs to be. I will explain the AR later. The ITA has been in conversations with the DNR for the last 2-3 years on this subject. Hoping it will go away is not an alternative.

[jdrogge]

If the subject is not going to go away I think we should take the 1 or 2 week idea to the DNR, if they can see we are willing to address the issue maybe they will not decide to take care of it for us. Administrative rule is kinda going in and amending a law without really opening up the whole book for possible changes, is that in the right ballpark Gene? I don't think the current political climate in DesMoines is real trapper friendly, so anything we can do to help ourselves before they decide whats best for us the better off we'll be.

[k9]

If I remember right a few years ago this came up and DNR took a wait and see attitude to let trappers correct themselves. Quite frankly I am assuming there are only a few idiots out there causing this for the rest of us.

I was speaking with our local CO today, and I pointed out to him what I have said on here before. I started trapping before the fur boom and can remember when trappers could do about anything they wanted to. The great majority of the restrictions we have today are generated when high dollar coon happen or are rumored to happen, and the money oriented types blow the dust off the traps in thier basement and stumble around the frst couple weeks of season.

I like many of you have seen coon at $40 each, and have had years I couldn't hardly give a coon away. Boys trappers like us will trap a little or a lot no matter what they are worth. We are the core/base of Iowa trapping. It is the "others" who cause most of the problems. It's not that we are better than them, we are just motivated for different reasons then they are. Our motivation makes us think more about our actions as we are serious about the sport.

I don't know how to get through to the other guys.

ADC the guy you are dealing with there is a slob, always has been, always will be. He trash talks snaring on a regular basis, yet always sets a lot of untagged snares and often leaves them out till spring. I know this from talking with a guy who has helped him several times go out and pick his gear up in the spring, observing animals that he has caught. He goes south and I go north and I like it that way. An untagged trap or snare can get blamed on anyone by the local farmers, and I can promise you if he catches something naughty he will not own up to the snare being his. He sets a Thompson style setup, always shiny new, and wires the anchor end up high on the top strand of a fence. I have seen his setup a couple times during season, and it is distinctive when you see it.

As I have told you before ADC, on his legholds they are rarely tagged and usually left out through the summer. If you see it down that way, you can either turn him in or get some free traps. Losing a trap is one thing, but leaving half your line out is quite another. Problem is he checks so infrequently that it owuld take a might patient game warden to catch him. I am urging our DNR to start using game cams for such things.

[~ADC~]

I know Bruce. I've seen his snares before even a couple this year, surelock on a 5' adjustable loop end snare and no tag hung right in the fence of the ROW. No way to prove it's his with out the game cam. I've seen a few places where his 220's were set in the fences too but were gone by the time I found the locations. (flattened grass, dead possums and skunks tossed off to the side, tie wire still on the fence and holes from his H type stabilizers) I know I could catch him at that but I don't want to spend trapping time to do it. I avoid him for the first two weeks or so, but when I pull and move after that I cross his path. He's caused two confrontations with other trappers for me by cutting snares and stealing catches too. It seems I'm the only one S.W. of here who knows he exists. A real thorn in my side so to speak. His health will sideline him soon though I suppose and it'll get better.

[k9]

Yep when you run no tags no one will know you exist unless they know your setup or see you there. I showed up in his drive with Mike R one time to discuss some issues. Made him mighty nervous but nothing could be proven.

[Scott W.]

I would be interested in being able to use a 330 in a float for beaver, however the "fully submerged" clause prevents it. Scott

[x-demoman]

I agree Scott. Would like to see 1/2 submerged but that calls for opening the Code. VERRY DANGEROUS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Scott W.]

What is the criteria to determine whether it can be dealt with via Admistative Rule vs. opening the Code? Scott

[x-demoman]

Check my post on Dec 22 titled Administrative Rule

Gene

[Scott W.]

Thanks Gene,
I found it and now see that it is pinned to the top.
I've been thinking about this "two week before season" idea and actually think it could be to our benifit as long as it is spelled out properly in the hunting and trapping regulation book. A couple neighbor boys approached me about someone's snare that was prestaked legally in the ROW. I had to take a second look at the rule book just to satisfy my mind that it actually was legally set. They had read the book too. (I guess my own paranoia of having my stuff stolen never let the option of prestaking enter my mind.) Had it been spelled out, with or without a time limit I think some hard feelings could have been prevented as well as their call to the CO. Scott