Transcript from Chat on Pre-staking issue...
Feb 10, 2009 21:07:28 GMT -6
Post by ~ADC~ on Feb 10, 2009 21:07:28 GMT -6
[ADC] So want have you all figuered out is benifits of eliminating prestaking?
[tommy52208] there are no benefits
[ADC] I mean whats gained by it?
[dfox] Ummm...nothin
[jason11] nothing for me
[Scott W.] I don't see any, if it doesn't hurt the resource, don't stop it.
[dfox] other than it makes things easier for the DNR to deal with the issue by just getting rid of it
[ADC] There must be something 10 directors voted to ax it....
[Scott W.] Typical gov'ment attitude
[ADC] theories?
[4fur] Eliminate or reduce competion
[tommy52208] now how can we get eveyone to get along and stop whinning, that seems to be the problem
[ADC] would it though 4fur?
[Scott W.] Make life fair
[4fur] Not really ADC. But some must feel that way
[ADC] What do you mean Scott? How?
[iayogi17] you can never make everyone happy
[dfox] Like's not fair
[4fur] I think it's a very small minority that is against prestaking.
[tommy52208] how many directors are there total if 10 voted nay ?
[Scott W.] Listen, I did not know it was even a legit tactic until I had to cal the CO to find out it was legal. Now I know, and I'm cool with it.
[ADC] There must be some benifit to someone... what is it?
[4fur] Scott, you are not the only one
[ADC] tommy there were 20 in attendance at the last meeting.
[dfox] I don't think it would eliminate or reduce comptition. you are still going to have the people that claim trails or territory as their own and get pissed at guys who move in on their territory and trap the same trails as they are
[Scott W.] The "Make fair" was meant to be sacastic
[dfox] pre taked or not
[iayogi17] intimidation
[Scott W.] I agree dfox
[tommy52208] very true
[4fur] We could have done a poll of how many were unaware prestaking was legal
[4fur] Scott wasn't the only one unaware about the legality of it
[Scott W.] I still say. print it in the regs and it won't be as much of a prob.
[ADC] yogi? intimidation??
[dfox] he eats intimidation for breakfast
[iayogi17] that is one thing Ron said
[ADC] Could you explain what nhe ment?
[ADC] Ron^^
[Scott W.] the DNR should not have to enforce ethics
[bluedot64] can we smoke here
[iayogi17] for young trapper it could be intimidateing for then
[Scott W.] burn'm up
[dfox] tell us about your prestaking experience from this year Brad, What Roger did to you a few times when he made sets
[Scott W.] heck. every young trapper is intimidated
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[ADC] I see. Young trappers need it writtren out maybe so they know its their trail as much as the next guy???
[iayogi17] sense there no harded be year of trapping
[dfox] that might help ADC, so it is clear in rules they print
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[Scott W.] I was, now I make an effort to make my presence known and get along with my neighbors who are trappers
[iayogi17] heck he had a trap and cain over top of my trap in plain sight
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[Scott W.] hey dave
[4fur] Prestaking can actually benefit school agers because they can work on their line while not in school
[dfox] Make it a point to say you are allowed to trap in the ROWs and no one can stake a claim to any public area
[daveplueger] howdy all
[Scott W.] good point dfox
[ADC] So instead of making it illegal we should just educate folks on what it really is???
[ADC] Hi Dave.
[Scott W.] YES!!!!!
[Scott W.] And YES!!!!
[4fur] Same with full time workewrs. an arguement can be made it benefits kids and part-timers more than long line hard cores
[ringtail] maybe the DNR needs to have a class like hunter safety for the younger guys getting into trapping to jearn the rules and ethics of trapping
[4fur] Education and communication are key!
[iayogi17] I started pre staking after reading space age coon by BB
[dfox] They used to have fur harvester classes
[ringtail] learn
[dfox] i took two of them as a kid
[Scott W.] Now, I do notice that the regs are not in the habit of encouraging things, only telling us what we can't do
[ADC] 4fur I agree, I like to know where my competition will be so I can plan around them.
[bluedot64] If a dozen snares cost as much as a dozen #11 s there would no disscusion here
[daveplueger] I still feel strongly that pre-staking should be for residents only, no out of staters
[ou812] So what have you all come up with for an answer to the problem?
??
[ADC] Ringtail, I'd volenteer to teach a class around here.
[Scott W.] Printed rules in the regs
[tommy52208] trappers need to learn how to get along and respect each other
[jason11] I'd help also
[4fur] bluedot64 exactly!
[Scott W.] Money makes us mean competitors
[daveplueger] 2 week prior, 1st of april after
[Scott W.] Yes Dave
[iayogi17] get along and respect that not cut and dry for some
[ou812] Am I the only director to show up here tonight or were some on earlier?
[Scott W.] I've got neighbors like that yogi
[4fur] You be it ou812
[dfox] I would go along with that Dave, It's no different than guys setting tree stands on public land a week before der season
[Scott W.] District 20 is open and I live here.
[4fur] Dave's idea is great but for some reason won't fly
[ou812] So from what I see, the main thing that has come up so far is ETHICS??
[daveplueger] A flyer sent out to fur harvesters explaining the situation and asking for input would go a long way.
[iayogi17] who thinks we should turn this around and get to prestake public ground?
[dfox] there is definately a lack of communication going on
[jason11] what brought this up and whos idea was it?
[Scott W.] Apparently DNR doesn't want to compromise 4fur
[daveplueger] I would love that, most of my riverline runs through game management
[bluedot64] iayogi17 it was that way once upon a time
[dfox] it was and things keep slowly eroding away
[Scott W.] Game management ground is totally different
[iayogi17] we loss and never get back
[daveplueger] Why doesnt the DNR want to compromise
[dfox] it's take take take and never give any back
[ou812] Dfox did you get your email from me? And did you do anything with it?
[Scott W.] more work for them
[iayogi17] What is diff w/ WMAs
[ADC] uo812 I asked earlir who it would benifit and how to ax prestaking ROW's noone had an answer do you?
[4fur] No public ground worth trapping here. I've prestaked less than 50 traps in the last 10 years anyway. Really.
[dfox] i had brad forward it to me, you forgot the underscore, i worked on a letter earlier tonight, i should be getting it out in the next couple of days
[daveplueger] How is it any more work than regulating guys that will pre-stake regardless
[ou812] To clarify ADC what do you mean by WHO IT would benefit?
[ADC] The DNR The farmers, other trappers? And how?
[Scott W.] ROW border privte land which can't be manage like a marshes or other large tracts
[jason11] can anybody tell me why they want us to quit prestaking
[Scott W.] cause of the whiners
[daveplueger] Mainly other trapper complaints
[dfox] Eric maybe you should explain how to complain to the board to everyone here like you did for us the other day
[iayogi17] manyly other traps what if we had a good fur year
[daveplueger] Why wasnt this tabled until more info could be gathered?
[bluedot64] If row is treated as game management aeras we will likely be able to continue use it.
[4fur] Great question Dave!
[Scott W.] Parlimetary procedure can work for you or against you
[Scott W.] We need to make the point that it is NOT GMA
[ADC] bluedot you think if no one could use snares this wouldn't be an issue?
[bluedot64] No but a much smaller issue
[dfox] This is from the ITA by laws:
[ADC] Maybe this is just a bias againts snare users?
[4fur] The good ol' boy network can work for or against you
[iayogi17] I could see that
[bluedot64] no they are just one tool we use
[daveplueger] I personaslyy never liked kill ,poles, too much damage IMO
[ADC] I'll leave it out of the transcript.
[dfox] who did it?
[4fur] His name will be in the minutes if they ever come out,
[ADC] Me too Dave.
[ou812] Sorry, trying to help the son with homework and do this all at once, let me catch up on the reading here just a min
[bluedot64] Try tangle stake because that is what we use to refer to them
[Scott W.] Here it comes, we have been resticted from putting snarees on fences to keep the genteel eyes of the public from seeing the carnage. Shouldn't we keep the kill poles out of site too? Just asking
[bluedot64] Scott W. tangle stake
[ADC] Don't give them ideas Scott.
[dfox] shhhhhhhhhh
[Scott W.] I Know
[paulb] i have never used a snare in over 50 years trapping,,probally never will,,,but they are legal so they should be used,,but i have a problem with the KILL POLE,,god what the anti's could do with that
[daveplueger] If they cant reg. pre-staking 2 weeks prior they sure cant reg kill poles
[Scott W.] It is really humane if used right
[bluedot64] tangle stake
[ADC] No different than setting next to a tree Paul.
[Scott W.] YES tangle stake!
[paulb] how whould the tree kill the animal,,fall on it?
[daveplueger] I used them every way possible and never saw the advantage
[dfox] wraps around it
[ADC] Wrap around just like the pole.
[paulb] they can regulate pre staking they just don't wany to put forth the effort,
[Scott W.] They climb up and fall down
[daveplueger] Not with are deer stop but thats a whole different story
[ADC] The pole is just a long rebar to wrap around, nothinmg more Paul.
[dfox] they want the easy way out
[Scott W.] Don't start on deer stops
[Scott W.] they suck
[daveplueger] my bad
[ADC] Dave it works with a deer stop IF you neck snare them all, which is impossible... but back on track...
[Scott W.]
[paulb] i guess not being a snare man it is greek to me,,my partner use's snares and is very efficent,,,i have no problems with them just never got into it
[ADC] Eric was about to name names...
[daveplueger] If we lose pre staking its just a matter of time before ROW goes too
[paulb] i think he has done his share if he wants to wait lets let him
[ADC] Paul I'll PM you a ton of info I made on it with killpoles too.
[bluedot64] not if its GMA
[ou812] I have given 4 people the on ITT the proper way to appeal this decision, what they do with it or have done with it is up to them. If they want to forward the info to you contact them
[ou812] IAyogi, dfox, ADC, k9 all have the info
[Scott W.] The Co's know pre placement of equipment is legal, mine does not agree with it, but follows the law
[ou812] My co is waffling whether this was a good idea
[paulb] if we lose ROW pre staking how long before hey come after private ground,,,then the number of traps and on and on
[4fur] Remember a year ago there were rumors about out-lawing out of state trappers and modifying ROW laws?
[daveplueger] sure do
[ou812] I really do not see the DNR coming after us for how many traps we can set, I could be wrong
[4fur] We talked about it at length on ITT and it was not aeven brought up at the directors meeting. I called my director prior to the meeting
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[ou812] I have checked with other states on what they allow and it is interesting
[Scott W.] How many times dio we react incorrectly to rumors
[daveplueger] Hi kellog
[4fur] If we had seen this coming doubt there would be problems now!
[paulb] the less w set the less they got to do,,
[dfox] Gene alluded to bigger issues looming ahead of us, but he never elaborated, does anyone know what he is talking about?
[Scott W.] Gene mentioned it
[kellogg] Hi dave
[ADC] Dave ROW trapping and pre-staking ROWs are unrelated. Correct?
[daveplueger] Thats why we need a flyer 4fur
[4fur] The poll we had is very scewed!
[bluedot64] Don't know the the guess is no ROW
[4fur] Yes Davew, better communication!
[iayogi17] right now its just prestaking
[ou812] ADC, iayogi and dfox.....have any of you done anyting with the info I gave you??
[daveplueger] Yes but Ron A has wanted ROW gone forever
[iayogi17] working on it
[ADC] me too
[Scott W.] So are they anti-trapping too?
[dfox] working on it, hopefully i can get it out tomorrow
[ou812] The sooner the better, I know k9 has sent his off
[ADC] Mine will go tomorrow.
[bluedot64] yes do you rember the article he wrote for the Iowa Conservationist years ago
[daveplueger] What info?
[iayogi17] take out row I'm getting a car to road kill them then
[Scott W.] Sorry blue don't get it
[dfox] whats ur email Dave, I can email it to you how to challenge an ITA decision
[daveplueger] Ron wrote that he wanted ROW gone a long time ago
[bluedot64] An article on fox with a BL#44 pictured
[ou812] Oh hell, i'm gonna take heat on this anyway probably......hold the typing and I will explain to all on here
[daveplueger] Oh, no need. I have it in the by-laws
[ADC] Does he have a reason Dave?
[Scott W.] So he's against efficient managment?!!!
[Scott W.] Ron That is
[daveplueger] Not as far as I'm concerned
[ADC] Just to make his job easier?
[dfox] just think how many coons and other critters that will be running around and dying of disease if they take the ROW away from us
[bluedot64] Nobody would ever use a #44 for fox they are a toothed trap
[Scott W.] More fly poison to sell
[ou812] ADC just post it on the website for all to see
[daveplueger] Does anyone know the estimated percentage taken in ROW?
[ou812] it will be easier that way
[ADC] Will do Eric.
[Scott W.] ou, What a waste
[ou812] waste of what scott
[dfox] i don't think there has ever been a study done on that DAve
[Scott W.] poisone animals are a waste (sorry)
[kellogg] Dave I think that would be a tough figure to get
[dfox] It would be very interesting stats to say the least
[daveplueger] I bet its around 65%-70%
[Scott W.] This year, none for me.
[dfox] It could be done with a proper study conducted
[tommy52208] def 70%+
[kellogg] I would hedge that higher
[ou812] See thats what is different around each part of the state and there in may lye the problem of perception
[daveplueger] Wont happen in this economy.
[ADC] 95% for me
[iayogi17] 90% 4 me
[dfox] prolly 98% for me this year
[4fur] >2000 animals for me this last year and maybe 20% ROW. but that's substancial!
[daveplueger] About 80% here but thats on game managemnet
[bluedot64] I had some but also had permission on adjoining ground
[4fur] I have an incredible amount of permission ground though!
[ou812] I can honestly say that I know of very few trappers in my county that trap the road ditch, partly because we don't have alot of habitat that is conducive to having alot of trails and farmers here mow most of the ditches
[kellogg] 80% 4 me
[Scott W.] You guy's numbers would make my take statistically insignificant
[bluedot64] mine too
[ADC] No pre-staking ROW's would not effect my catch, I don't anyway but I hope I can in the future.
[ADC] If I want to.
[paulb] who are these people who are damaging their equipment on the kill poles?
[Scott W.] I could benifit from it too
[ou812] I envy those of you that trap areas that have tree's.....my county a tele pole is considered a tree
[kellogg] never have prestaked
[daveplueger] Without pre-staking a road line can be done in the first week. Old man winter has made sure of that in the past
[ADC] No trees here either Eric.
[bluedot64] paulb tangle stake
[iayogi17] with working full time pre staking helps a lot
[ou812] aren't you in the state of Johnson county???
[paulb] sorry,,tangle stake
[Scott W.] It keeps the pro's efficient
[daveplueger] I should say extensive road line
[ringtail] always presat in the past but didnt this year, put me 3 days to get line out and cut my catch down by a third
[ADC] I'm in Poweshiek Co.
[ou812] oh
[Scott W.] Howard
[4fur] I caught one coon in a beaver snare this year. I don't prestake because I hate catching flat early coon.
[Scott W.] My early coon were beaver catches too
[daveplueger] There not all flat early coon. Course you live in the banana belt
[4fur] But I haven't the weather concerns you non banana belt guys do. Seriuosly
[ou812] Anything south of 20 is the bannana belt to me
[bluedot64] we were bburied in snow
[4fur] I do have different rules than most of you!
[ADC] Ok so who benifits from NOT allowing pre-staking of ROW's? Seriously.
[bluedot64] DNR
[Scott W.] the whiners
[ou812] Why does the DNR benefit?
[daveplueger] no one ADC
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[kellogg] kids getting bullied
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[ADC] Why did 10 directors vote for it then Dave?
[bluedot64] fewer calls from hunters that stubber their toe
[daveplueger] I was bullied left band right in the 70s. Just made me try that much harder
[iayogi17] thay not think it's right
[dfox] i would say the dnr benefits because of fewer complaints
[paulb] why did all the democrats vote for the stimulus and the republicans against it,,its called politics
[daveplueger] If a kid gets the bug, nothing will stop him.
[Scott W.] DNR benefits cause I could have opened a snare thet I found and cause a heck of a mess
[daveplueger] The DNR will get NO less complaints
[bluedot64] daveplueger do they make trapping in GameBoy
[kellogg] true but it is discouraging for them
[daveplueger] Good point
[dfox] i agree they wont get less complaints, but they think they will
[Scott W.] Kellog, that is life
[iayogi17] I bet they think anything to help a kid but times have changed kid like gaming not trapping
[Scott W.] Not all of them
[daveplueger] Thats why a flyer should be sent out to all fur harvesters than the DNR will know the truth of the matter
[ou812] Iayogi, what is the preception of pre-staking from a DNR opinion? within your ranks.
[kellogg] i agree dave
[Scott W.] where do I donate?
[ADC] So like I said instread of making it illegal, educate on what it really is.
[daveplueger] That would help
[ADC] instead^^^
[ou812] Making it illegal for out of staters to come in and do it would be interesting
[iayogi17] 1st come just like every thing else
[4fur] Thanks ou812 for being a director and coming on here. Flyer as well as better communication is a must to avoid situations like this in the future.
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[tommy52208] I think we need mandatory state trapping classes that include ethics
[daveplueger] Hi Rob
[iayogi17] but you don't own the area
[ou812] SD does it for pheasant hunting, why couldn't the state do it for trapping???
[rob] Hey guys
[ADC] Not a bad idea Tommy IMO.
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[kellogg] hi rob
[ADC] Hi rob.
[dfox] thats a good idea tommy, they used to have the fur harvester classes, i dont know if they even do them anymorethough
[paulb] do u think the slob trapper gives a crap about ethics,,,he won't change
[dfox] i have taken 2 ofthem in the past
[ADC] Never even heard of such a class in my area.
[daveplueger] got to go guys
[Scott W.] Me neither
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[iayogi17] I have the old paper work in the office for the fur class
[tommy52208] i think when attending mandatory classes with positive trappers who care they will learn respect.........maybe not
[Scott W.] It can't hurt
[ou812] Iayogi....what is the perception of pre-staking within the DNR ranks???
[dfox] we actually made sets and caught critters. did it during the trapping season and in the summer, gota special permit from the dnr to make sets and kill the critters for educational purposes
[iayogi17] most guys i talk to see it just like deer stands
[dfox] during the summer/fall class that was
[ou812] Is that co's, techs, bio's?
[Scott W.] yogi that is encouraging
[iayogi17] techs bio. cos thata diff breed
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[ou812] Yeah co's are, most are afraid of the dark in this neck of the state.
[Scott W.] explain CO's
[ou812] Game wardens
[dfox] conservation officers
[Scott W.] I know that, but why?
[ADC] Ok guys, I got to run if you come up with a solution PLEASE LET ME KNOW! I'll this transcript posted and get the info from Eric put up as well. Thanks for coming in tonight!!!
[tommy52208] there are no benefits
[ADC] I mean whats gained by it?
[dfox] Ummm...nothin
[jason11] nothing for me
[Scott W.] I don't see any, if it doesn't hurt the resource, don't stop it.
[dfox] other than it makes things easier for the DNR to deal with the issue by just getting rid of it
[ADC] There must be something 10 directors voted to ax it....
[Scott W.] Typical gov'ment attitude
[ADC] theories?
[4fur] Eliminate or reduce competion
[tommy52208] now how can we get eveyone to get along and stop whinning, that seems to be the problem
[ADC] would it though 4fur?
[Scott W.] Make life fair
[4fur] Not really ADC. But some must feel that way
[ADC] What do you mean Scott? How?
[iayogi17] you can never make everyone happy
[dfox] Like's not fair
[4fur] I think it's a very small minority that is against prestaking.
[tommy52208] how many directors are there total if 10 voted nay ?
[Scott W.] Listen, I did not know it was even a legit tactic until I had to cal the CO to find out it was legal. Now I know, and I'm cool with it.
[ADC] There must be some benifit to someone... what is it?
[4fur] Scott, you are not the only one
[ADC] tommy there were 20 in attendance at the last meeting.
[dfox] I don't think it would eliminate or reduce comptition. you are still going to have the people that claim trails or territory as their own and get pissed at guys who move in on their territory and trap the same trails as they are
[Scott W.] The "Make fair" was meant to be sacastic
[dfox] pre taked or not
[iayogi17] intimidation
[Scott W.] I agree dfox
[tommy52208] very true
[4fur] We could have done a poll of how many were unaware prestaking was legal
[4fur] Scott wasn't the only one unaware about the legality of it
[Scott W.] I still say. print it in the regs and it won't be as much of a prob.
[ADC] yogi? intimidation??
[dfox] he eats intimidation for breakfast
[iayogi17] that is one thing Ron said
[ADC] Could you explain what nhe ment?
[ADC] Ron^^
[Scott W.] the DNR should not have to enforce ethics
[bluedot64] can we smoke here
[iayogi17] for young trapper it could be intimidateing for then
[Scott W.] burn'm up
[dfox] tell us about your prestaking experience from this year Brad, What Roger did to you a few times when he made sets
[Scott W.] heck. every young trapper is intimidated
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[ADC] I see. Young trappers need it writtren out maybe so they know its their trail as much as the next guy???
[iayogi17] sense there no harded be year of trapping
[dfox] that might help ADC, so it is clear in rules they print
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[Scott W.] I was, now I make an effort to make my presence known and get along with my neighbors who are trappers
[iayogi17] heck he had a trap and cain over top of my trap in plain sight
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[Scott W.] hey dave
[4fur] Prestaking can actually benefit school agers because they can work on their line while not in school
[dfox] Make it a point to say you are allowed to trap in the ROWs and no one can stake a claim to any public area
[daveplueger] howdy all
[Scott W.] good point dfox
[ADC] So instead of making it illegal we should just educate folks on what it really is???
[ADC] Hi Dave.
[Scott W.] YES!!!!!
[Scott W.] And YES!!!!
[4fur] Same with full time workewrs. an arguement can be made it benefits kids and part-timers more than long line hard cores
[ringtail] maybe the DNR needs to have a class like hunter safety for the younger guys getting into trapping to jearn the rules and ethics of trapping
[4fur] Education and communication are key!
[iayogi17] I started pre staking after reading space age coon by BB
[dfox] They used to have fur harvester classes
[ringtail] learn
[dfox] i took two of them as a kid
[Scott W.] Now, I do notice that the regs are not in the habit of encouraging things, only telling us what we can't do
[ADC] 4fur I agree, I like to know where my competition will be so I can plan around them.
[bluedot64] If a dozen snares cost as much as a dozen #11 s there would no disscusion here
[daveplueger] I still feel strongly that pre-staking should be for residents only, no out of staters
[ou812] So what have you all come up with for an answer to the problem?
??[ADC] Ringtail, I'd volenteer to teach a class around here.
[Scott W.] Printed rules in the regs
[tommy52208] trappers need to learn how to get along and respect each other
[jason11] I'd help also
[4fur] bluedot64 exactly!
[Scott W.] Money makes us mean competitors
[daveplueger] 2 week prior, 1st of april after
[Scott W.] Yes Dave
[iayogi17] get along and respect that not cut and dry for some
[ou812] Am I the only director to show up here tonight or were some on earlier?
[Scott W.] I've got neighbors like that yogi
[4fur] You be it ou812
[dfox] I would go along with that Dave, It's no different than guys setting tree stands on public land a week before der season
[Scott W.] District 20 is open and I live here.
[4fur] Dave's idea is great but for some reason won't fly
[ou812] So from what I see, the main thing that has come up so far is ETHICS?
?[daveplueger] A flyer sent out to fur harvesters explaining the situation and asking for input would go a long way.
[iayogi17] who thinks we should turn this around and get to prestake public ground?
[dfox] there is definately a lack of communication going on
[jason11] what brought this up and whos idea was it?
[Scott W.] Apparently DNR doesn't want to compromise 4fur
[daveplueger] I would love that, most of my riverline runs through game management
[bluedot64] iayogi17 it was that way once upon a time
[dfox] it was and things keep slowly eroding away
[Scott W.] Game management ground is totally different
[iayogi17] we loss and never get back
[daveplueger] Why doesnt the DNR want to compromise
[dfox] it's take take take and never give any back
[ou812] Dfox did you get your email from me?
And did you do anything with it?[Scott W.] more work for them
[iayogi17] What is diff w/ WMAs
[ADC] uo812 I asked earlir who it would benifit and how to ax prestaking ROW's noone had an answer do you?
[4fur] No public ground worth trapping here. I've prestaked less than 50 traps in the last 10 years anyway. Really.
[dfox] i had brad forward it to me, you forgot the underscore, i worked on a letter earlier tonight, i should be getting it out in the next couple of days
[daveplueger] How is it any more work than regulating guys that will pre-stake regardless
[ou812] To clarify ADC what do you mean by WHO IT would benefit?
[ADC] The DNR The farmers, other trappers? And how?
[Scott W.] ROW border privte land which can't be manage like a marshes or other large tracts
[jason11] can anybody tell me why they want us to quit prestaking
[Scott W.] cause of the whiners
[daveplueger] Mainly other trapper complaints
[dfox] Eric maybe you should explain how to complain to the board to everyone here like you did for us the other day
[iayogi17] manyly other traps what if we had a good fur year
[daveplueger] Why wasnt this tabled until more info could be gathered?
[bluedot64] If row is treated as game management aeras we will likely be able to continue use it.
[4fur] Great question Dave!
[Scott W.] Parlimetary procedure can work for you or against you
[Scott W.] We need to make the point that it is NOT GMA
[ADC] bluedot you think if no one could use snares this wouldn't be an issue?
[bluedot64] No but a much smaller issue
[dfox] This is from the ITA by laws:
[ADC] Maybe this is just a bias againts snare users?
[4fur] The good ol' boy network can work for or against you
[iayogi17] I could see that
[bluedot64] no they are just one tool we use
[daveplueger] I personaslyy never liked kill ,poles, too much damage IMO
[ADC] I'll leave it out of the transcript.
[dfox] who did it?
[4fur] His name will be in the minutes if they ever come out,
[ADC] Me too Dave.
[ou812] Sorry, trying to help the son with homework and do this all at once, let me catch up on the reading here just a min
[bluedot64] Try tangle stake because that is what we use to refer to them
[Scott W.] Here it comes, we have been resticted from putting snarees on fences to keep the genteel eyes of the public from seeing the carnage. Shouldn't we keep the kill poles out of site too? Just asking
[bluedot64] Scott W. tangle stake
[ADC] Don't give them ideas Scott.
[dfox] shhhhhhhhhh
[Scott W.] I Know
[paulb] i have never used a snare in over 50 years trapping,,probally never will,,,but they are legal so they should be used,,but i have a problem with the KILL POLE,,god what the anti's could do with that
[daveplueger] If they cant reg. pre-staking 2 weeks prior they sure cant reg kill poles
[Scott W.] It is really humane if used right
[bluedot64] tangle stake
[ADC] No different than setting next to a tree Paul.
[Scott W.] YES tangle stake!
[paulb] how whould the tree kill the animal,,fall on it?
[daveplueger] I used them every way possible and never saw the advantage
[dfox] wraps around it
[ADC] Wrap around just like the pole.
[paulb] they can regulate pre staking they just don't wany to put forth the effort,
[Scott W.] They climb up and fall down
[daveplueger] Not with are deer stop but thats a whole different story
[ADC] The pole is just a long rebar to wrap around, nothinmg more Paul.
[dfox] they want the easy way out
[Scott W.] Don't start on deer stops
[Scott W.] they suck
[daveplueger] my bad
[ADC] Dave it works with a deer stop IF you neck snare them all, which is impossible... but back on track...
[Scott W.]
[paulb] i guess not being a snare man it is greek to me,,my partner use's snares and is very efficent,,,i have no problems with them just never got into it
[ADC] Eric was about to name names...
[daveplueger] If we lose pre staking its just a matter of time before ROW goes too
[paulb] i think he has done his share if he wants to wait lets let him
[ADC] Paul I'll PM you a ton of info I made on it with killpoles too.
[bluedot64] not if its GMA
[ou812] I have given 4 people the on ITT the proper way to appeal this decision, what they do with it or have done with it is up to them. If they want to forward the info to you contact them
[ou812] IAyogi, dfox, ADC, k9 all have the info
[Scott W.] The Co's know pre placement of equipment is legal, mine does not agree with it, but follows the law
[ou812] My co is waffling whether this was a good idea
[paulb] if we lose ROW pre staking how long before hey come after private ground,,,then the number of traps and on and on
[4fur] Remember a year ago there were rumors about out-lawing out of state trappers and modifying ROW laws?
[daveplueger] sure do
[ou812] I really do not see the DNR coming after us for how many traps we can set, I could be wrong
[4fur] We talked about it at length on ITT and it was not aeven brought up at the directors meeting. I called my director prior to the meeting
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[ou812] I have checked with other states on what they allow and it is interesting
[Scott W.] How many times dio we react incorrectly to rumors
[daveplueger] Hi kellog
[4fur] If we had seen this coming doubt there would be problems now!
[paulb] the less w set the less they got to do,,
[dfox] Gene alluded to bigger issues looming ahead of us, but he never elaborated, does anyone know what he is talking about?
[Scott W.] Gene mentioned it
[kellogg] Hi dave
[ADC] Dave ROW trapping and pre-staking ROWs are unrelated. Correct?
[daveplueger] Thats why we need a flyer 4fur
[4fur] The poll we had is very scewed!
[bluedot64] Don't know the the guess is no ROW
[4fur] Yes Davew, better communication!
[iayogi17] right now its just prestaking
[ou812] ADC, iayogi and dfox.....have any of you done anyting with the info I gave you?
?[daveplueger] Yes but Ron A has wanted ROW gone forever
[iayogi17] working on it
[ADC] me too
[Scott W.] So are they anti-trapping too?
[dfox] working on it, hopefully i can get it out tomorrow
[ou812] The sooner the better, I know k9 has sent his off
[ADC] Mine will go tomorrow.
[bluedot64] yes do you rember the article he wrote for the Iowa Conservationist years ago
[daveplueger] What info?
[iayogi17] take out row I'm getting a car to road kill them then
[Scott W.] Sorry blue don't get it
[dfox] whats ur email Dave, I can email it to you how to challenge an ITA decision
[daveplueger] Ron wrote that he wanted ROW gone a long time ago
[bluedot64] An article on fox with a BL#44 pictured
[ou812] Oh hell, i'm gonna take heat on this anyway probably......hold the typing and I will explain to all on here
[daveplueger] Oh, no need. I have it in the by-laws
[ADC] Does he have a reason Dave?
[Scott W.] So he's against efficient managment?!!!
[Scott W.] Ron That is
[daveplueger] Not as far as I'm concerned
[ADC] Just to make his job easier?
[dfox] just think how many coons and other critters that will be running around and dying of disease if they take the ROW away from us
[bluedot64] Nobody would ever use a #44 for fox they are a toothed trap
[Scott W.] More fly poison to sell
[ou812] ADC just post it on the website for all to see
[daveplueger] Does anyone know the estimated percentage taken in ROW?
[ou812] it will be easier that way
[ADC] Will do Eric.
[Scott W.] ou, What a waste
[ou812] waste of what scott
[dfox] i don't think there has ever been a study done on that DAve
[Scott W.] poisone animals are a waste (sorry)
[kellogg] Dave I think that would be a tough figure to get
[dfox] It would be very interesting stats to say the least
[daveplueger] I bet its around 65%-70%
[Scott W.] This year, none for me.
[dfox] It could be done with a proper study conducted
[tommy52208] def 70%+
[kellogg] I would hedge that higher
[ou812] See thats what is different around each part of the state and there in may lye the problem of perception
[daveplueger] Wont happen in this economy.
[ADC] 95% for me
[iayogi17] 90% 4 me
[dfox] prolly 98% for me this year
[4fur] >2000 animals for me this last year and maybe 20% ROW. but that's substancial!
[daveplueger] About 80% here but thats on game managemnet
[bluedot64] I had some but also had permission on adjoining ground
[4fur] I have an incredible amount of permission ground though!
[ou812] I can honestly say that I know of very few trappers in my county that trap the road ditch, partly because we don't have alot of habitat that is conducive to having alot of trails and farmers here mow most of the ditches
[kellogg] 80% 4 me
[Scott W.] You guy's numbers would make my take statistically insignificant
[bluedot64] mine too
[ADC] No pre-staking ROW's would not effect my catch, I don't anyway but I hope I can in the future.
[ADC] If I want to.
[paulb] who are these people who are damaging their equipment on the kill poles?
[Scott W.] I could benifit from it too
[ou812] I envy those of you that trap areas that have tree's.....my county a tele pole is considered a tree
[kellogg] never have prestaked
[daveplueger] Without pre-staking a road line can be done in the first week. Old man winter has made sure of that in the past
[ADC] No trees here either Eric.
[bluedot64] paulb tangle stake
[iayogi17] with working full time pre staking helps a lot
[ou812] aren't you in the state of Johnson county?
??[paulb] sorry,,tangle stake
[Scott W.] It keeps the pro's efficient
[daveplueger] I should say extensive road line
[ringtail] always presat in the past but didnt this year, put me 3 days to get line out and cut my catch down by a third
[ADC] I'm in Poweshiek Co.
[ou812] oh
[Scott W.] Howard
[4fur] I caught one coon in a beaver snare this year. I don't prestake because I hate catching flat early coon.
[Scott W.] My early coon were beaver catches too
[daveplueger] There not all flat early coon. Course you live in the banana belt
[4fur] But I haven't the weather concerns you non banana belt guys do. Seriuosly
[ou812] Anything south of 20 is the bannana belt to me
[bluedot64] we were bburied in snow
[4fur] I do have different rules than most of you!
[ADC] Ok so who benifits from NOT allowing pre-staking of ROW's? Seriously.
[bluedot64] DNR
[Scott W.] the whiners
[ou812] Why does the DNR benefit?
[daveplueger] no one ADC
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[kellogg] kids getting bullied
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[ADC] Why did 10 directors vote for it then Dave?
[bluedot64] fewer calls from hunters that stubber their toe
[daveplueger] I was bullied left band right in the 70s. Just made me try that much harder
[iayogi17] thay not think it's right
[dfox] i would say the dnr benefits because of fewer complaints
[paulb] why did all the democrats vote for the stimulus and the republicans against it,,its called politics
[daveplueger] If a kid gets the bug, nothing will stop him.
[Scott W.] DNR benefits cause I could have opened a snare thet I found and cause a heck of a mess
[daveplueger] The DNR will get NO less complaints
[bluedot64] daveplueger do they make trapping in GameBoy
[kellogg] true but it is discouraging for them
[daveplueger] Good point
[dfox] i agree they wont get less complaints, but they think they will
[Scott W.] Kellog, that is life
[iayogi17] I bet they think anything to help a kid but times have changed kid like gaming not trapping
[Scott W.] Not all of them
[daveplueger] Thats why a flyer should be sent out to all fur harvesters than the DNR will know the truth of the matter
[ou812] Iayogi, what is the preception of pre-staking from a DNR opinion?
within your ranks.[kellogg] i agree dave
[Scott W.] where do I donate?
[ADC] So like I said instread of making it illegal, educate on what it really is.
[daveplueger] That would help
[ADC] instead^^^
[ou812] Making it illegal for out of staters to come in and do it would be interesting
[iayogi17] 1st come just like every thing else
[4fur] Thanks ou812 for being a director and coming on here. Flyer as well as better communication is a must to avoid situations like this in the future.
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[tommy52208] I think we need mandatory state trapping classes that include ethics
[daveplueger] Hi Rob
[iayogi17] but you don't own the area
[ou812] SD does it for pheasant hunting, why couldn't the state do it for trapping?
??[rob] Hey guys
[ADC] Not a bad idea Tommy IMO.
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[kellogg] hi rob
[ADC] Hi rob.
[dfox] thats a good idea tommy, they used to have the fur harvester classes, i dont know if they even do them anymorethough
[paulb] do u think the slob trapper gives a crap about ethics,,,he won't change
[dfox] i have taken 2 ofthem in the past
[ADC] Never even heard of such a class in my area.
[daveplueger] got to go guys
[Scott W.] Me neither
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[iayogi17] I have the old paper work in the office for the fur class
[tommy52208] i think when attending mandatory classes with positive trappers who care they will learn respect.........maybe not
[Scott W.] It can't hurt
[ou812] Iayogi....what is the perception of pre-staking within the DNR ranks?
??[dfox] we actually made sets and caught critters. did it during the trapping season and in the summer, gota special permit from the dnr to make sets and kill the critters for educational purposes
[iayogi17] most guys i talk to see it just like deer stands
[dfox] during the summer/fall class that was
[ou812] Is that co's, techs, bio's?
[Scott W.] yogi that is encouraging
[iayogi17] techs bio. cos thata diff breed
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[ou812] Yeah co's are, most are afraid of the dark in this neck of the state.
[Scott W.] explain CO's
[ou812] Game wardens
[dfox] conservation officers
[Scott W.] I know that, but why?
[ADC] Ok guys, I got to run if you come up with a solution PLEASE LET ME KNOW! I'll this transcript posted and get the info from Eric put up as well. Thanks for coming in tonight!!!
