280 Bodygrip Court Case

[4fur]

I received an interesting text a few minutes ago which read...



A court case came in yesterday in Iowa regarding 280 measurements and how it is measured. The trapper won.

I believe the message came from an ITA director and an ITT member. Anyone else have knowledge about this?

[vogastyle88]

I don't know if its the same case but I know of a trapper that was fighting a supposable 280 violation but haven't heard anything yet

[paulb]

Keep the board up to date, please

[~ADC~]

Not sure it applies to this case (time will tell), but I always figured you could beat a 280 set on land ticket since the booklet they hand out with your license, doesn't state that in fact they are to be measured outside jaw spread, just says over 8" is not legal and 280's are marketed as 8" jaw spread. Definitely not saying its a good idea to try and get away with setting them on land, but I can see how people could easily mistakenly think 280's are legal. Then again there are some who just don't care...

[bd64]

I found this but it does not indicate ID or OD measurements.

481A.92 TRAPS -- DISTURBING DENS -- TAGS FOR TRAPS.

1. A person shall not use or attempt to use colony traps in
taking, capturing, trapping, or killing any game or fur-bearing
animals except muskrats as determined by rule of the commission. Box
traps capable of capturing more than one game or fur-bearing animal
at each setting are prohibited. A valid hunting license is required
for box trapping cottontail rabbits and squirrels. All traps and
snares used for the taking of fur-bearing animals shall have a metal
tag attached plainly labeled with the user's name and address. All
traps and snares, except those which are placed entirely under water,
shall be checked at least once every twenty-four hours. Officers
appointed by the department may confiscate such traps and snares
found in use that are not properly labeled or checked.
2. Except as otherwise provided, a person shall not use
chemicals, explosives, smoking devices, mechanical ferrets, wire,
tool, instrument, or water to remove fur-bearing animals from their
dens. Humane traps, or traps designed to kill instantly, with a jaw
spread, as originally manufactured, exceeding eight inches are
unlawful to use except when placed entirely under water.
3. Conibear type traps and snares shall not be set on the
right-of-way of a public road within two hundred yards of the entry
to a private drive serving a residence without the permission of the
occupant.
4. A snare when set shall not have a loop larger than eight
inches in horizontal measurement except for a snare set with at least
one-half of the loop under water. A snare set on private land other
than roadsides within thirty yards of a pond, lake, creek, drainage
ditch, stream, or river shall not have a loop larger than eleven
inches in horizontal measurement.
5. All snares shall have a functional deer lock which will not
allow the snare loop to close smaller than two and one-half inches in
diameter.

[jlanduyt]

That's one thing that always bothered be, how are you supposed to measure jaw spread on a trap, inside or outside? Are there any hard rules on this?

[~ADC~]

Mar 13, 2013 17:53:51 GMT -6 jlanduyt said:

That's one thing that always bothered be, how are you supposed to measure jaw spread on a trap, inside or outside? Are there any hard rules on this?

Foothold traps are measured by inside jaw spread, bodygrippers are measured by outside jaw spread. It's the law but not all laws are in that little pamphlet (same one bd64 quoted from). It wouldn't make any difference though as there are NO 280's that measure 8" or less outside or INSIDE measurement... but their boxes say 8" so...

[x-demoman]

Could prove very interesting. I agree with you ADC since it does not state HOW it is measured just did not have the balls to set one dry and make the challenge in court. DNR has always stated they measured "from outside to outside on the body grippers" BUT that is not stated in printed form that I know of. What are the consequences we could be faced with?

!/ The Code would need to be opened to insert exactly how they are to be measured.

2/ Leave it as is and allow 280s on dry land.

I don't like either but does seem somethings will need to be done. Either will allow for some opportunities to make changes in that section of the Code. The biggest concern is the new and increased anti activities in and around Des Moines.

[vogastyle88]

When did 280's become a player in the game?

[TexA]

" 3. Conibear type traps and snares shall not be set on the
right-of-way of a public road within two hundred yards of the entry
to a private drive serving a residence without the permission of the
occupant. "

If you ever have a QUESTION about some Law/Rule such as the above example, LEAVE YOURSELF SOME COMFORT ROOM when interpeting that/those rules....

Here is one that can be taken a couple different ways :
"within two hundred yards of the entry to a private drive serving a residence"

Just to be SAFE:
Take the distance from your intended trap-site to said building or occupied ( by man or animal) as the 200-yard limit..
By using a "little common sense" you can keep yourself Legal and safe from this sort of problem................

[~ADC~]

Mar 13, 2013 21:16:22 GMT -6 x-demoman said:

Could prove very interesting. I agree with you ADC since it does not state HOW it is measured just did not have the balls to set one dry and make the challenge in court. DNR has always stated they measured "from outside to outside on the body grippers" BUT that is not stated in printed form that I know of. What are the consequences we could be faced with?

!/ The Code would need to be opened to insert exactly how they are to be measured.

2/ Leave it as is and allow 280s on dry land.

I don't like either but does seem somethings will need to be done. Either will allow for some opportunities to make changes in that section of the Code. The biggest concern is the new and increased anti activities in and around Des Moines.

Actually Gene if they actually measure any brand of 280 they are all over 8" even inside jaws spread. I think the trouble is the manufacturers cable them as 8" so who would measure them.... ?

ADC

[x-demoman]

I did some research last summer on how manufacturers measure traps. In the supply catalogs I found the foot traps to be measured inside and outside depending on trap manufacturer. It was interesting to see that there is not a standard method for measuring traps within the industry. Sometimes the measurements can be confusing especially if you do not catch the part stating inside or outside measurement. I think this is what concerns trappers the most is the lack of consistency. It is like all things we need to slow down, read and understand what we are reading. With friends who manufacture traps I know they are built traps that will be legal in certain states yet seem to be of no use in another.

Gene

[jbruegge]

I have a strange little bodygripper I was given that measures 7" inside, and 8" outside.
Not sure who made it, and don't want to use it other than for dispatch purposes because I don't feel like arguing whether it's legal or not depending on how you measure.

Next to a duke 220 for reference.

[~ADC~]

There should be something stamped into the side of the dog to help identify your trap.

[Kelly]

Mar 14, 2013 8:38:14 GMT -6 jbruegge said:

I have a strange little bodygripper I was given that measures 7" inside, and 8" outside.
Not sure who made it, and don't want to use it other than for dispatch purposes because I don't feel like arguing whether it's legal or not depending on how you measure.

Next to a duke 220 for reference.

The one on the right is a Victor 220 and they do measure 8" on the outside.

[LLLTrapper]

I would guess the one on the right is a Northwood 280. LLL

[littlehawk]

When they say measures 8''. Is that across or diagonal corner to corner? I.D or O.D. Sometimes I think they leave these issues too vague for the trapper, hunter, or fisherman.

[Kelly]

Mar 14, 2013 12:36:21 GMT -6 LLLTrapper said:

I would guess the one on the right is a Northwood 280. LLL

Absolutely not, Larry. Northwoods jaw shape is totally different plus that is the Victor 4 way trigger. The trap looks exactly like my buddies Victor 220's and has the same measurments as his have!

[jlanduyt]

Easy way to avoid all the legal mess...160s. will work for land critters, coon, grinners, skunks, even rats, mink and from what i've seen, otter. just my two cents.

[LLLTrapper]

I have a bunch of Victors and you are right Kelly. They are the triggers I replaced because they break inside and the whole trigger falls out. LLL

[~ADC~]

Mar 14, 2013 17:54:38 GMT -6 jlanduyt said:

Easy way to avoid all the legal mess...160s. will work for land critters, coon, grinners, skunks, even rats, mink and from what i've seen, otter. just my two cents.

I get coons often that refuse to go through a 220 (trail sets), I'm not ready to go any smaller so long as I don't have to.

~ADC~

[Pinky "P"]

I get coons often that refuse to go through a 220 (trail sets), I'm not ready to go any smaller so long as I don't have to.

~ADC~[/quote]

X2

[4fur]

I think most of non-submerged 280's were used for beaver trapping, jlanduyt. At least they were on my line. I never had too great of luck at castor sets but loved them on dam crossovers and in little trickles in head waters and below dams. And I used to kill some big beaver in BMI and then the Belisle 8X8s...










Virtually any size bodygrip with 2 springs can take a domestic. But it isn't the trap but the person who sets it that is ultimately responsible IMO.

[TRapper]

i have killed many a coon in the 160s and even many in the true 5x5 rbgs, i loved em in missouri when trappin coon out of attics and catching coon in tight necked down coon trails,

[paulb]

So r we going to hear more about the court case?

[x-demoman]

I think we are all waiting Paul. Everything I have heard is 2nd hand at best. Have not heard any particulars. Surly someone in central Iowa has some information.