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Post by k9 on Nov 8, 2012 20:32:39 GMT -6
Blaming fly bait is pure speculation. None of us have ever trapped coon in a drought this bad. It is bound to change up the game. I remember 88 being a wierd year and that was nothing compared to this. The coon are there they are just running different than what you are used to.
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Post by riverbandit on Nov 8, 2012 20:43:47 GMT -6
K9, coon are coon. Their running no different than they ever have in my 35 plus years of targeting them. For the past 2-3 years I've noticed a steady decline in the local pop. Not diseased type drop of which I've witnessed many cycles, but an over all drop in all age groups. The ONLY thing that co insides with this type of pop. drop is the highly increased use of fly bait. 5 years ago, few farmers in the area were using the stuff. Now 90% of my neighbors have used fly bait. Areas that have steadily produced for 30 plus years are dead, and I mean dead. In those 30 plus years distemper and parvo have come and gone, yet these select locations still always produced, but not now. Nothing has changed accept the use of poison.
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Post by k9 on Nov 8, 2012 20:50:17 GMT -6
Around here what has changed has been decreased habitat. Seems like every maple grove with hollow trees, old barns, houses, etc is getting bulldozed down on a daily basis. I cannot believe how much the landscape has changed in the last few years. I also cannot buy the fact that enough poison has been slung to effect a coon population statewide. Attachments:
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Post by k9 on Nov 8, 2012 20:54:58 GMT -6
My catch is down a little too but I am in a heavily trapped area with lots of missing habitat that used to be good for 10 coons here and 10 coons there Attachments:
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Post by riverbandit on Nov 8, 2012 21:01:27 GMT -6
I said nothing about state wide, I'm talking locally on my line. The habitat along this river hasn't changed much in my life time, and neither has the ag land that boarders it. The same food sources and den sites exist that have been here for many decades. The only thing missing are the coon.
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hugerod
Active Trap Talker
Posts: 82
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Post by hugerod on Nov 8, 2012 22:40:40 GMT -6
The one areage owner that admits to using poison says he gets 15 to 20 per summer. I always wanderd why there was no sign in the draw 100 yards from his house, yet you go a half mile in any direction and the catch is excellent. I think it is a very localized problem, if every household practiced this, I could see it having an effect. Yet if he kills this many every year, that means coons keep moving in to fill the void.
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Post by TexA on Nov 9, 2012 7:52:30 GMT -6
DEAD COON laying EVERY WHERE means for some reason they are dying-in-their-tracks!
If they are near a place where they've been poisoned, they won't be too far from that source, a few feet to a few yards is usually as far as they go after eating it.
If they are randomly laying in fields, any where along their usual travel routes, they are probably dying from DISTEMPER.
The local Law Enforcement people around here have been called numerous times this year to dispose of (mostly) "funny acting" Coons. That includes DNR personell as well as in-town Police Officers. I've been called by people up to 30 miles away to come and dispose of such critters, multiple times this fall. (I'm NOT a Police Office nor a DNR person either, people just know I'm a trapper.
Distemper TRAVELS FAST and Kills FAST too. So if your area hasn't been hit yet, make-hay-while-the-sun-shines because it could happen at any time and be over before you even know about it.
So far this season, This has been the worse COON trapping season I've ever experienced, and I've been doing it for a long long time !
The Possum and Skunk population seems to flourish despite the lack of coon activity
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Post by Austin K on Nov 9, 2012 10:45:39 GMT -6
hmmm then it must be distemper around my area. but not sure how much of it because i have only found one bridge with dead coon at random, and they where all within 30 of another. 2 where fresh 3 where at least a week old. thought about maybe they got hit on the road but due to the locations they where in, it didn't seem likely.
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Post by centraliowa (ryan) on Nov 9, 2012 11:00:37 GMT -6
i am trapping the same area's as i have for the past 10 years. most of the habitat is there, food is there, water is there, but the coon are fewer than past years. there are a couple new trappers out there i have never seen or met but they are not catching much either by looking at the lack of torn up set area's. i have not seen any dead coon but there sure does seem to be a drop in numbers this year!
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afoxj
Shy Talker
Posts: 43
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Post by afoxj on Nov 9, 2012 22:21:32 GMT -6
this morning was taking a big boar coon out of a 220 and noticed another coon down stream struglin at the shoreline. went down and dispatched it. he could barely quiver and could not run away like a normal healthy coon. most everything im catching on land are big boars. water trappers have complained to many dinks. i think its distemper.
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Post by jim87formula on Nov 10, 2012 7:56:48 GMT -6
I have not seen any dead coons laying around here but haven't been getting as much either. Few spots have changed due to home development & lack of water. The coon I have been getting though are fully furred up and look great.
Maybe someone should do a poll on here and see what areas or counties are seeing these random dead coons? Or maybe its just random areas? I'm curious...
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Post by tas1024 on Nov 11, 2012 6:57:06 GMT -6
I have found over 30 dead coon so far, 14 at one gravel pit alone. all on shoreline.
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wolfdog
Active Trap Talker
Posts: 52
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Post by wolfdog on Nov 11, 2012 12:35:01 GMT -6
I haven't found any dead coon, but have been finding dead deer every where. Some have been dead for a while and not eaten, while others have been ate on,some in the water some on dry land. Don't know if it has anything to do with the coon but where I find dead deer the coon are just not there. One creek used to be good for 50 or 60 coon and 100 rats,1or2 mink, some beaver. Now the water sinks like when you cut into a mink sack and is as black as night. The beaver dams are still there, in fact what deer that is left use it to cross the creek. We may have a bigger problem than we think.
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Post by 4fur on Nov 11, 2012 16:10:53 GMT -6
Lot of dead deer around here too, Wolfdog. Don't believe it effects coon...
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Post by k9 on Nov 11, 2012 16:50:02 GMT -6
The only dead coon we have been finding are in our fur shed. Numbers are down without a doubt. Same deal here those we are catching are mainly bigger coon.
I have places in the middle of no where, far from any farm buildings and people where I normally take four or six coon out of a brush pile or maple grove where I am catching none or only one then done. No fly bait there, no way no how. I can't explain what it is, but I know what it isn't.
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Post by hooter on Nov 11, 2012 19:12:50 GMT -6
same thing goin on in my area. Not near the numbers as usual, size is runnin bigger than normal and have seen alot of dead coon laying through out the area. Shot 2 sick ones just yesterday and have had several farmers do the same this past week. Heck the one guy was fixing his chisel plow out in the field and saw a coon come out of the linefence and start headin towards him. Darn thing came right up to him under the plow as he was working so he whopped him with a hammer he had with him. no healthy coon does that.
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Post by trapping24 on Nov 11, 2012 19:34:29 GMT -6
well i pulled up a bunch of sets today and moved to a new area and set out a new line, found my first dead coon of the season laying right in the trail!
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Post by riverbandit on Nov 11, 2012 19:43:01 GMT -6
K9, Where in IA can you be in the middle of no where? I can't think of any place in this state where there isn't a farm with in 5 miles of some where.
Just talked to 4 more farmers yesterday that combined killed almost 300 coon over the summer with fly bait. Only a blind man would argue that it isn't having an effect on the pop. Distemper may be a factor as well, but distemper normally only takes out the young and weakened.
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Post by BigT on Nov 11, 2012 20:30:51 GMT -6
I think we have bought more coon this week than we have ever bought??? Alot of new trappers out there taking all "your" coon....................
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Post by riverbandit on Nov 11, 2012 20:39:22 GMT -6
Or people just need the money sooner and aren't holding their fur.
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Post by 4fur on Nov 11, 2012 20:49:12 GMT -6
I think we have bought more coon this week than we have ever bought??? Alot of new trappers out there taking all "your" coon.................... Lot of competition everywhere it sounds like. That's good for the sport and keeps the suppliers in business. But with the blood bath on carcass coon at the route buyers over the weekend and this tough weather moving in this week, I predict a lot better attendance at the day jobs soon. And a lot of slightly used traps and equipment will be advertised on the Trap Shed. ;D Is it human nature that people are always inclined to quit right when it starts getting good?
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Post by LLLTrapper on Nov 11, 2012 20:59:34 GMT -6
;D YEP. I depend on it Wayne. LLL
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Post by bone hunter on Nov 11, 2012 21:06:24 GMT -6
i hope so wayne, alot of guys out there this year, most i have never seen before, i just set out today for the season, hope it is going to get good
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Post by x-demoman on Nov 11, 2012 21:20:26 GMT -6
For the "new" guys in the game it may seem like there are a lot of trappers. The numbers of trappers are at near record lows of fur harvester liscense sold. You should have been around it the fur boom of the 80's, that is when we had trappers, hunters, spotlighters, thieves and crooks everywhere. There are currently only 6 other trappers besides myself on MY LINE. Not a problem like when there were 5-6 of us under a bridge. Tried to get some to car pool but they wouldn't, think they were the ones also checking other peoples traps.
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Post by k9 on Nov 11, 2012 22:23:25 GMT -6
Dave I guess I am blind then because I am not buying that poison has that big an effect other than in small areas such as this farm or that farm.
Here is the only reason in the world that I care to even debate the issue. We trappers are always looking for a reason why this and that happens on our lines. When some are given the excuse that them mean old farmers are poisoning the coon they might stop looking for answers for thier lower coon take which means they stop learning.
Kind of like when a canine trapper gets dug up and someone tells him he has a smart coyote that is messing with him. Some fail to think past that excuse to learn that they are bedding thier traps too loose or have gotten lure smells on thier traps.
My idea of middle of no where are huge sections that I trap on private ground that only have level B roads. I am talking three and four mile tracts of farm ground with no highways or few active farm buildings on them. I have brush piles and other such coon housing on those pieces of ground where I have zero competition and the coons needs are all satisfied without travelling far. I find it hard if not impossible to believe that farmers poison has effected these coon, or most other coon for that matter.
I will give you the last word Dave as we are bound to disagree on this and I am too busy to be messing on here too much.
Anyone who believes that thier number one overall problem this fall regarding lower coon numbers is farmers poisoning coon, deserves to believe that. Those folks may be less likely to keep an open mind to other things going on and may not learn much, which is fine with me.
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hugerod
Active Trap Talker
Posts: 82
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Post by hugerod on Nov 12, 2012 5:44:55 GMT -6
Amen. Rod
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Post by blackhammer on Nov 12, 2012 6:36:41 GMT -6
There are probably a number of things behind lower coon numbers in some regions. Poison is one of them. You must remember in the spring and summer coon congrate closer to people. There looking for food and around people is were they find it.. This is when there poisoned. But habitat and disease are always a factor as well. Poison plays a part wether you want to admit it or not. But in many places it's probably just a small part of it. I have a handful of places were I'm sure it really knocks them down. One is near a mink ranch were instead of a guard fence he poisoned over a hundred coon by his count. Just something a trapper has to deal with and out of my control . I can always find coon just hate to see them wasted. The fact is if you have say have a person poisoning in about every square mile section which in some counties is in the ball park it will effect your coon numbers.
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Post by riverbandit on Nov 12, 2012 18:23:19 GMT -6
That's what has happened in this area hammer. I can count over 2 doz land owners with in a 15 mile radius that use it EXTENSIVELY. It has with out question had an impact with in this area. I've kept very accurate records over the past 35 years, and even during the worst distemper years(early 90s) there were still plenty of coon to harvest. Yes, habitat loss is a factor as well, but the habitat I refer to in this region hasn't changed much with in this time frame. If someone can explain to me with a viable reason why 4 farmers killing close to 300 coon isn't hurting the pop I'm all ears. Its important to remember that when a milking sow visits a silage bag in mid April, and takes a drink of the "killer cool aid" it not only takes her out, but takes out the 4-6 cubs back in the den as well.
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Post by bradphillips on Nov 12, 2012 19:45:47 GMT -6
I don't know what would be worse, the poison at the site or the starvation in the den.
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Post by bradphillips on Nov 12, 2012 19:54:51 GMT -6
Seems like my area is down in numbers also. But there are fewer old buildings and the bulldozer has wrecked a lot of habitat. In combination with the drought, cool-aid, and ?
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