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Post by TRapper on Feb 5, 2013 13:43:28 GMT -6
my fur is rarely in my freezer longer than 3 weeks
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Post by justwannano on Feb 5, 2013 14:04:34 GMT -6
I guess I should qualify what I said.
Use your head.
Don't pack hides in freezer tight. Don't freeze wet hides. Don't thaw using excessive heat. That means room temp. A fan will help. just
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Post by riverbandit on Feb 5, 2013 14:35:17 GMT -6
Just, please explain how freezing a carcass, and freezing a rolled pelt are the same? The entire pelt on a carcass is going to be the first thing to freeze since the actual pelt is closest to the freezing temps. A rolled pelt will freeze at different rates. No comparison what so ever. Q/Others will lose large patches of fur due to moisture penetration of leather, and taint due to freezing too slow. /Q Body heat will cause leather to freeze much more slowly than a rolled pelt. So does that mean I don't freeze them whole? NOPE I do both. It just doesn't make much if any difference. just That is incorrect. Body heat dissipates at a very fast rate. Place a carcass coon in a freezer, and a rolled pelt. The outside of the carcass animal will freeze LONG before the center of a rolled pelt. Been there, done that.
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Post by justwannano on Feb 5, 2013 15:48:18 GMT -6
Q/Others will lose large patches of fur due to moisture penetration of leather, and taint due to freezing too slow. /Q Body heat will cause leather to freeze much more slowly than a rolled pelt. So does that mean I don't freeze them whole? NOPE I do both. It just doesn't make much if any difference. just That is incorrect. Body heat dissipates at a very fast rate. Place a carcass coon in a freezer, and a rolled pelt. The outside of the carcass animal will freeze LONG before the center of a rolled pelt. Been there, done that. Nope. That heat has to go somewhere. It just doesn't disappear. The belly will be the last to freeze and that takes awhile. Just think about it. 30 pound coon freezes faster than a 3 pound piece of leather and fat? I don't think so. If you understand what a heat sink is -- its used to dissapate the heat in an electronic device--you can understand how the body of the coon generates heat and the cold temp has to overcome that heat before freeze happens. On the other hand the skinned hide is already cool. Not as much mass so not as much heat is contained and it freezes faster. Anyway it takes some time for decay to happen and this whole process of freeze will be over before the decay happens. BTW I said I just wasn't gonna argue this so this is my last post on the subject. just
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Post by LLLTrapper on Feb 5, 2013 15:53:33 GMT -6
Just your fur is frozen first. Not the carcuss. Would you eat the inside of that same coon? Also the bacteria is where decomp comes from. You have proven our point and aren't arguing. Do what you want but that is NOT what experts say...........Just saying. LLL
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Post by riverbandit on Feb 5, 2013 15:57:55 GMT -6
No arguing just, I'm only giving first hand accounts. I've placed carcass coon in the freezer and had the outside frozen in a matter of hrs. I've also placed a thermometer in the center of a rolled coon pelt and had it take over 20 hrs for the center to reach 32 degrees. Do the test yourself since you doubt what I say to be true.
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Post by justwannano on Feb 5, 2013 18:01:42 GMT -6
I'm thinkng you are mistaking cold hard fat for frozen. just
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Post by riverbandit on Feb 5, 2013 18:40:52 GMT -6
Your right just....After handling roughly 15,000 I don't know the difference. I'm done trying to give sound advice. It seems to fall on deaf ears.
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Post by justwannano on Feb 5, 2013 18:54:14 GMT -6
Q/ I've also placed a thermometer in the center of a rolled coon pelt and had it take over 20 hrs for the center to reach 32 degrees/Q
But did the fur slip? I'll bet not if the animal was handled short of a couple of days at cool temps. Your posts reek of doom if not frozen flat. All I'm saying is I've never had damage because of rolling fur. BTW others also have said they roll theirs and I'll also bet they wouldn't do it if the fur was hurt.
just
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Post by riverbandit on Feb 5, 2013 19:34:29 GMT -6
Like I said. You guys are also NOT following that pelt through the dressing, therefore you have ABSOLUTELY NO idea if any damage is taking place.
I hate repeating myself.....Deaf ears!
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mink99
Active Trap Talker
Posts: 99
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Post by mink99 on Feb 5, 2013 21:02:24 GMT -6
Like I said. You guys are also NOT following that pelt through the dressing, therefore you have ABSOLUTELY NO idea if any damage is taking place. I hate repeating myself.....Deaf ears! Apparently you fellas don't understand why Groney wants the hides laid out flat and frozen. It is so they can examine the pelt, not because they think it is the best way. Like I said, I roll all my fur, and I will bet any man on here that you will not find one single tainted spot. I can guarentee I handle more fur on here then most of you combined. In fact, the reason we roll fur is because of NAFA and Seattle Fur Exchange, as they recommended it. And of course I think you guys know they handle way more fur then Groney ever will.
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Post by riverbandit on Feb 5, 2013 21:08:08 GMT -6
You'd be surprised mink.
Next time you sell casualties to them, ask them about rolled fur and the problems they've had with dressing.
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mink99
Active Trap Talker
Posts: 99
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Post by mink99 on Feb 5, 2013 21:17:40 GMT -6
You'd be surprised mink. Next time you sell casualties to them, ask them about rolled fur and the problems they've had with dressing. No I wouldn't be suprised. The only reason a pelt will taint is because it has not been completely cooled. If you catch and dispatch any animal, skin it and throw it in a freezer while it is still warm, rolled or flat, that pelt will taint. That is why I said every pelt must be cooled thoroughly before putting in any freezer. The vast majority of the skins I handle will be warm so I wait for them to cool before they are packed.
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Post by riverbandit on Feb 5, 2013 21:29:59 GMT -6
I meant you'd be surprised at the amount of fur they handle.
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mink99
Active Trap Talker
Posts: 99
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Post by mink99 on Feb 5, 2013 21:37:46 GMT -6
I meant you'd be surprised at the amount of fur they handle. I know Groney handles a ton of fur. I wish I could tour their facility. Like I always say I like Groney. They treat us good and are very friendly. I was real impressed this year how fast we got the second part of our casualty check.
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Post by TRapper on Feb 5, 2013 21:40:23 GMT -6
learning to put up fur this friday evening by a guy that puts up good numbers of coon each year but isn't as well known in the trappin community, he always freezes flat also and sells all his fur to nafa. the main reason i freeze flat and laid out is that i don't take my coons out of the freezer to sell anymore than 2-4 hours ahead of heading out the door to meet groeny in boone. most coons are flat and easily measured, mike can tell what size they are by looking at them
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Post by TRapper on Feb 5, 2013 21:41:50 GMT -6
one disadvantage of rolling fur i can see is having a longer time to get the fur to thaw out and the outside will be very loose and could get slimy by the time the middle is thawed out in warmer weather and could result in a dock from the buyer if selling green
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Post by bradphillips on Feb 7, 2013 19:42:22 GMT -6
I have frozen rolled and flat. Not as much risk in freezing flat. Also thaws quicker.
One quick trip to any fur buyer will settle the rolled or flat debate.
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