BS from SD post.

[catting]

I can understand what the state of SD is trying to do. We in Iowa do it with our NR deer hunters, but that is another topic. You are all correct by stating that if rats were not $8 then nobody would go there to trap them, including many residents who are the ones that brought this issue up. The SD legislators listen to the tax paying voters in that state as do the Iowa legislators do in this state. I am sure that if we had the same problem here in this state many of us would be doing the same, unfortunately we just don't have the rats but we do have the coon!! It stinks that this is going to happen but as Iowa residents I believe that we are all S.O.L. Which is too bad because I and almost every other trapper on this site has envisioned going to a marsh in the spring a sluggin a bunch of rats.

[Kelly]

Jul 5, 2011 20:00:38 GMT -6 catting said:

I can understand what the state of SD is trying to do. We in Iowa do it with our NR deer hunters, but that is another topic. You are all correct by stating that if rats were not $8 then nobody would go there to trap them, including many residents who are the ones that brought this issue up. The SD legislators listen to the tax paying voters in that state as do the Iowa legislators do in this state. I am sure that if we had the same problem here in this state many of us would be doing the same, unfortunately we just don't have the rats but we do have the coon!! It stinks that this is going to happen but as Iowa residents I believe that we are all S.O.L. Which is too bad because I and almost every other trapper on this site has envisioned going to a marsh in the spring a sluggin a bunch of rats.

What do we do differently with non resident hunters who draw a tag? Do we make them start later and end earlier than residents? No the rules are the same for non residents as for residents.

And as far as trapping is concerned here in Iowa SD residents can come here as non residents and trap otter but their state does not allow it and these same SD residents can go to Wisconsin and trap otter and/or fisher(if they draw a tag) but are not allowed in SD. Same with New York and Maine and Southern states and many more. As far as "reciprocity" is concerned with trapping far more states just plain allow non residents to trap in the same seasons and under the same rulse as residents do.

[cooncatcher47]

Well guys this discussion got me to thinking about alot of things in life. Such as a neighbor, friend or relative getting a new car, tractor, house or whatever material thing it may be. When someone does well and enjoys the fruits of their labor, then some people get very jelous, even to the point of obsession. These people will stop at nothing to withold their fellow man from achieving his goals. This includes complaining to elected officials when their own inadequacy caused them to fail in the first place. The sad truth is trapping is no different than the rest of life, jelousy is a human trait and needs to be over come on a personal level. There are alot of pros on here and I bet every one of them would attest to that. Sharing is another attribute of the pro's, I would bet every trapper on here has shared with someone at one time or another. When certain wanna be's realize these facts, they too can join the world of trappers that can make large catches. You see if a person puts as much energy into doing a project for themselves as they do complaining about someone else's success, that person would be equally successful !! AND IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT STATE OF THE UNION YOU LIVE IN OR TRAP IN, IT IS A STATE OF MIND !!

[Kelly]

Jul 5, 2011 21:37:50 GMT -6 cooncatcher47 said:

Well guys this discussion got me to thinking about alot of things in life. Such as a neighbor, friend or relative getting a new car, tractor, house or whatever material thing it may be. When someone does well and enjoys the fruits of their labor, then some people get very jelous, even to the point of obsession. These people will stop at nothing to withold their fellow man from achieving his goals. This includes complaining to elected officials when their own inadequacy caused them to fail in the first place. The sad truth is trapping is no different than the rest of life, jelousy is a human trait and needs to be over come on a personal level. There are alot of pros on here and I bet every one of them would attest to that. Sharing is another attribute of the pro's, I would bet every trapper on here has shared with someone at one time or another. When certain wanna be's realize these facts, they too can join the world of trappers that can make large catches. You see if a person puts as much energy into doing a project for themselves as they do complaining about someone else's success, that person would be equally successful !! AND IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT STATE OF THE UNION YOU LIVE IN OR TRAP IN, IT IS A STATE OF MIND !!

Amen!

[jdrogge]

ADC, does that mean I can't say I'd like to take at least 5 toes and kick him square in the ass just kidding guys

[Kelly]

Since I'm unable to find a way to cut/paste page one of the Proposal I will type it into this post verbatom except for the signatures(one of which is totally illegible).

Proposal to Game, Fish & Parks Commission
Re Non Resident Trapping Restrictions


_________________________________

Non Resident Restrictions.

Non Residents may purchase a 28 consectutive day furbearer license that must be exercised in between the First Saturday of December to March 15th.

Notwithstanding the season dates established in this chapter, no non resident may take or trap any mink or weasel, muskrat, beaver, or raccoon, except for a period commencing with the establishment of said season.

No non resident may use a dog as an aid in the taking of raccoon.

Sponsored by the following individuals:

Then the following is cut/pasted of pages 2 & 3 of this same proposal.

To Whom It May Concern:
While educating ourselves on reciprocity which means, 1. reciprocal action or relation or 2. a mutual exchange of commercial or other privileges, we researched the states that have been the forerunners of this issue. Our findings show that none of the states have in effect the same non-resident hunting or trapping privileges or laws as another. Each state while being reciprocal and allowing non-residents into their state to harvest their natural resources, has their own individual regulations and privileges that they allow non-residents to have. Each state has exercised their own state rights that protect the majority of their own resident trappers and their own natural resources. Listed below are the states that we have checked thus far via the web and the results of our findings to the best of our knowledge:
Wyoming: NR can trap whatever Wyoming residents can trap in the state they are coming from. (Ex- ND does not allow NR to trap bobcats so ND cannot trap bobcats in WY)
Iowa: Season dates are the 6th of November – 31st of January – NR can take 2 otters and 1 bobcat or until quota for season is filled (usually within the first 10 days).
Wisconsin: Resident season is October 15th – February 15th – NR start October 29th till February 15th (2 weeks later) - There is a tag drawing for bobcats, otter and fisher and Residents get 1st preference on the draw.
Nebraska: Season starts Nov 1st till February 28th
Kansas: Season starts Nov 16th till Feb 15th – NR allowed 1 bobcat
North Dakota: Seasons close March 15th – NR are NOT allowed to trap bobcats
Michigan: Resident season starts October 15th – NR cannot start till Nov 15th – Nonresidents may hunt and trap furbearing animals only from Nov 15 through the regular season closing dates. A nonresident cannot purchase a license before Nov 15th. Residents of Wisconsin, Minnesota, ND, SD, and the province of Ontario, cannot purchase a Michigan nonresident fur harvester license.
Montana: Available only to NR conservation license holders 12 years of age or older, whose state of residence has non-resident trapper licenses available to Montana trapper. Valid only for predatory animals and nongame wildlife. Season Dates: Oct 15 – April 15. Deadline to
purchase license: Feb 28, 2011.
Furbearers – Furbearing animals are legally defined as beaver, otter, muskrat, mink, marten, fisher, wolverine, bobcat, swift fox and lynx. There is no season for lynx. ONLY MONTANA RESIDENTS MAY HUNT OR TRAP FURBEARERS, LICENSED REQUIRED.
Reasoning behind our Proposal:
1. Start Date: First Saturday of December We as resident trappers understand the #1 hunting sport in SD is Pheasant Hunting. In
consideration of this NR trappers would put added pressure on the road right of ways and could possibly jeopardize some of our rights that we have now by giving them an unnecessary privilege. We would expect that the majority of the trappers would want to stay in their own state the first month of the tapping season.
2. 28 Consecutive Days from the First Saturday in December till 15th of March This gives the NR the opportunity to trap any species in SD that is in season during the 28 days they are here to trap with unlimited harvesting privileges. Most non-residents are going to come for 2 weeks – 30 days. This gives them a 3 ½ month period they have the privilege to choose from to harvest when the fur is the most prime. Most other states seasons are NOT 3 ½ months in duration and do NOT stay open past the 15th of March.
3. Closing Date: March 15th In consideration of what took place in our state last spring of 2011 with the residents and Non-residents on the road right of ways; this earlier closing date for the NR will help to relieve the conflicts with the NR. We feel that in order to protect our resident’s state rights we need this earlier closing date for the NR. We don’t feel that we should have to give the NR more time to trap in our state than the majority of the non-residents get to trap within his own state.
Summary: While researching other states reciprocity regulations we have found that there is not a specific set of reciprocity laws. Each state has exercised their own state rights that protect the majority of their own resident trappers and their own natural resources. Attempting to compare each state’s individual reciprocity guidelines is like comparing apples to oranges. It can’t be done.
The number of residents that purchased fur bearer licenses and actively trapped in the last 5 years has and is steadily increasing along with the rise in the fur market as follows:
(Season being December 15th of current year till December 14th of following year)
2006-2007 1634 Resident
2007-2008 1738 Resident
2008-2009 1822 Resident
2009-2010 2405 Resident
Current Trapping Season:
2010-2011 1934 Resident (As of current Date)
These numbers show that as the fur prices go up so do the number of resident trappers. More important is the fact that these numbers clearly show the residents of South Dakota will harvest the fur themselves; which will keep the revenue from the sale of the fur within our own state, therefore, supplementing our local economies to keep them strong.
We feel that this proposal for our state of SD addresses and helps to contend with previous problems that our state has had with non-residents and future problems that will come from the rising or reduction of fur prices. Our mission is to establish state rights guidelines for the majority of our resident trappers that will preserve and protect our natural resources and will keep the majority of the revenue from the fur sales in our own state to support and sustain South Dakota’s economy for many generations to come; while at the same time observing reciprocity and allowing non-residents the privilege to come to our state to trap.
(Page 3 of 3)

[catting]

Kelly- we do limit the amount of non-rez hunters that come into this state to hunt deer. We limit them to zones, tags and most of them only get to come into the state to kill a buck every 3 or 4 years, how about Missouri? I can go kill a buck down there every year. The point I was trying to make is that each state has the power to manage their natural resources the way they see fit. If that means limiting the non residents coming into that state because a couple of residents trappers were offended when non residents showed up then oh well.
Your right on more states allowing non residents to trap at the same time as residents but as you move from the south to the west geographically you see the trend that the western states are typically in favor of their own residents versus non-residents, call it jealously or what have you but that state is looking out for it's residents.

[Kelly]

Sorry catting but we are talking Trapping here, not hunting or fishing or sightseeing, just trapping as the Proposal indicates. Since the SD Legislature passed the "Reciprocal" Non Resident Furbearer License bill earlier this year the intent of these 13 individuals with their Proposal is the end of non resident trapping in SD by so severely restricting only non residents that it will effectively end-they will not come. One of their main purposes is eliminating the spring open water trapping season for non residents only by setting the arbitrary March 15th date.

Finally virtually all trapping regulations in every State are set because of biological reasons. Their Proposal has no biological reason to restrict non residents so severely. In fact, it will have an adverse effect biologically by not reducing an already exploding and damaging population of muskrats. Furthermore the loss of revenue that non resident trappers brought into SD this past Spring will be felt by each and every Motel, Gas Station, Grocery Store, Resturant, Laundromat and other business owner/operators at a time when the SD Economy can not afford to loose that revenue.

[LLLTrapper]

Kelly are these guys trappers or concerned citizens? Itis hard to believe that a state that is so heavily dependant on tourism to include fishing and hunting would pass up a chance to control rat populations and make extra money. If put to a vote by the general population would this pass? Why 28 consecutive days when they can come here and trap 83 days? This sounds odd. LLL

[cooncatcher47]

Good points, Kelly. If through a biological study SD determined that there were not enough muskrats to go around, then I would agree that the number of NR should be restricted. This not the case as we know, they are overrun with rats. This is purely about jealousy on the part of a few. Those few people should deal with that within themselves. There are number of professional NR trapping in SD, the residents doing the complaining could chose to learn from the pro's and maybe even develop better methods and become better trappers themselves. The resident's have many advantages the NR do not, such as general knowledge of the territory, personal contacts to private land, a home base to work from and many more. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how the powers that be handle the situation. Hopefully the principles this country was founded on will prevail!

[catting]

Kelly, you are right this a trapping post, I was simply citing an example of what we do here in Iowa to control other animal populations by non residents. Let me say that I am not against you here, I agree with you whole- heartedly, but the fact that another state does something selfish should upset you as it does me, they are going to do what they want. There are many examples of how allowing non-res into the state will bring in money to the local economy but they obviously don't care about that. By putting the restrictions in there yes it essentially eliminates open water muskrat trapping. By the way they also limit the amount of days you can hunt there also. Yes I just made another hunting reference but its not because I am hunting first, it is because we are all consumptive users and I am referring to how the state considers manages its natural resources. Should I be upset at all the non-resident hunters that take our coon and spend their furcheck in the state they came from? No.

[Kelly]

Jul 6, 2011 7:08:58 GMT -6 LLLTrapper said:

Kelly are these guys trappers or concerned citizens? Itis hard to believe that a state that is so heavily dependant on tourism to include fishing and hunting would pass up a chance to control rat populations and make extra money. If put to a vote by the general population would this pass? Why 28 consecutive days when they can come here and trap 83 days? This sounds odd. LLL

Might as well publish their names since they signed the Proposal.

Odon Corr
Melvin C Fluth
Orville Lerew
Allan Drovdal
Kerry Hansen
Bob Simpson
Dale Simpson
Myron E. Simons
David P. Rieck
Ronald R, Debra K Baker(don't know if this is two people or one)
Kyle Baker
Tom Hansen SD State Senator
Their is another name but is totally illegible.

All are claiming to be members of SDTA, except Tom Hansen, but I do know for sure that the SDTA is not in favor off nor have solicited this Proposal. Whether or not they are all trappers and/or buy a Furbearers license and trap is unknown, except for the Bakers who are the only ones to indicate they are Landowners and Trappers.

[LLLTrapper]

Was Tom Hanson the one that proposed this. Alot of times they are forced to by their constituants. I recall the bill they introduced about the snares/conis at 400 yds. from a drive and that sponser voted against it in the end. LLL

[Kelly]

LLL;

No, Tom Hansen did not propose this nor should his name take on any more importance than the other 12. They are just all signors of the Proposal and petition the Commission to be heard. The Commission can accept their petition, or deny it. If the latter that ends it for now. If they accept it this will be the official first reading of the Proposal. Then there will be 30 days for Public Comment-then the Commission will vote yeah or nay.

[bobafett]

There is nothing on the SDTA website pertaining to this bill. Does anyone one no whether they are supporting it?
My guess is they would not pursue such a bill so soon after passing the reciprocity bill.
On a lighter note check out Ms. SD Rodeo 2011 on the SDTA website. They gave her a Red Fox coat and she is smokin hot in it!!!!

[Kelly]

As near as I can tell the SDTA is not supporting this in anyway and seem disappointed that one of their Directors is. Afterall, there was a vote taken at the SDTA Spring Meeting about the late start. A 1 week late start beat out no late start by 1 vote and don't remember seeing anyone vote to continue the 4 week late start of old. I know there were several of the signors at this meeting, as well as I was since I'm a member, too.

[cooncatcher47]

Kelly, I think it's great that you are a memberof the SDTA!

[blackhammer]

I along wth a couple of fellow Minnesotans are also members.We all trapped out there two years and thought it is a good idea to belong to their association.

[robertw]

The part that realy PO's me is the continued lies by this individual "SD Foxtrapper/ Tentoes". He continously referrs to the "horrific" violations and problems by non-resident trappers but the truth is that to this date NO NONRESIDENT TRAPPER HAS BEEN WRITTEN A CITATION OR CONVICTED OF ANY WILDLIFE VIOLATIONS in South Dakota .

[Bristleback]

I think we all know "tentoes" certainly blows lots of smoke, keep talking smack about the NR.........WITH do you think the State of SD would be without the NR $, via PHEASANT hunting, waterfowl hunting and........the FEW and I mean FEW NR trappers. CLUE: your state depends HEAVILY on NR $, I've worked the NR Pheasant Opener for several years, been there done that, seen it, lived it.....lots of family owned businesses depend HEAVILY on NR $.........and you're worried about a few thousand muskrats.......LOL, get a CLUE!
You remind me of the OJ jurors, Obama voters and the Casey Anthony jurors.....

[Scott W.]

slimshady
Guest
Re: s.d./new mex.- potato patato
« Reply #185 Yesterday at 10:41pm »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



gfp.sd.gov/agency/commission/docs/minutes-juneDraft.pdf

open this up and read public comments on non resident trapping page 92.

SDfoxtrapper/skipper/sdgunner/farmboui/ten toes is the Brian R.


This may or may not be factual. I do not know who "slimshady" I found it on another site (LYNXlair). Remember this is the internet, do your own fact checking.

Kelly, Is it possibly that the illegible signature you saw belongs to this individual? Scott

[dennisj]

Did I read that right? Only 81 nonres.trapping lic. sold last year? And half of them from MN? And MN is out for nonres. trapping, so 41 nonres. trappers is what they are complaning about? What a bunch of greedy winers!!!
Dennis

[furgood]

One guy said said reciprocity would have to be explained to him before he could support it Another said in support of a later start, that easy/enjoyable trapping should in effect be protected for residents. So when it gets cold they can now head to nicer weather to trap in another state and generously leave the cold/unenjoyable trapping for non-residents. If they want to play protectionist games like this, I may stop fishing or doing any travel there. And I will support any lawsuit that would keep thier missouri river lakes at perminant minimum capacity and return them to the flood control duty(primary) that they were built for with our tax dollars. If they want to keep it all, than they can keep thiers but not be able to risk damage/flooding in lower states for the benifit of tourist dollar fisheries.

[Kelly]

Jul 7, 2011 4:40:07 GMT -6 Scott W. said:

slimshady
Guest
Re: s.d./new mex.- potato patato
« Reply #185 Yesterday at 10:41pm »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



gfp.sd.gov/agency/commission/docs/minutes-juneDraft.pdf

open this up and read public comments on non resident trapping page 92.

SDfoxtrapper/skipper/sdgunner/farmboui/ten toes is the Brian R.


This may or may not be factual. I do not know who "slimshady" I found it on another site (LYNXlair). Remember this is the internet, do your own fact checking.

Kelly, Is it possibly that the illegible signature you saw belongs to this individual? Scott

Yes, it sure is possible-Brian R was the name used in testimony and there is only one signature with last name starting with R

[Eric Rector]

Ironically the first paragraph of those meeting notes says they got their predator control monies cut from the Fed's and they are thinking about knocking the non-resident trapper, someone who is coming to their state, paying to trap and get rid of the problem animals for free. Go figure

[coontrapper]

Wow this issue is a load BS. You would think that a state that received the kind of $ from non-resident hunters as SD does wouldn't think of screwing potential "customers".

The reciprocy thing is also a bunch of BS IMO. I go out of state to experience things I can't in Iowa. It would be like going out of state to shop Walmart. Not to mention the head aches that it has created for the CO's.

[Scott W.]

"It would be like going out of state to shop Walmart. "

You are soooo right!!!!

[Deleted]

He ran outta here fast, that's for sure!

[hugerod]

SD has rats? In that case, I think we should load up some live traps, and transport some to Iowa. Maybe they're immune to whatever the heck is keeping our pop. down. Bring on them six pound rats!

[jdrogge]

There is no immunity to a hawk on every other fence post LOL